From Nurse to Real Estate Powerhouse Building Wealth and Freedom with Gina Shumway
Key Takeaways
- You create profit when you buy the deal, not when you sell it.
- Taking imperfect action will always outperform waiting for certainty.
- Long-term success comes from adapting strategies and building strong relationships.
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The REI Agent with Gina Shumway
https://youtu.be/aYUiOgcWPUE
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A Life That Was Safe But Not Satisfying
For years, Gina Shumway lived a life that many would consider successful. She was a highly trained nurse practitioner, educated, stable, and respected in her field.
On the surface, everything made sense. But deep down, something was missing.
Her days were structured. Her income was predictable. Her path was clear. Yet, there was a quiet desire for more control, more freedom, and more ownership over her future.
That desire would eventually change everything.
The Moment Everything Shifted
It did not start with a grand plan. It started with a loose tile in her bathroom. What began as a small home repair quickly turned into a full renovation project. Gina found herself tearing things apart and putting them back together with her own hands.
And something clicked.
She realized she enjoyed creating value. She enjoyed transforming something broken into something better. That moment opened the door to a completely new way of thinking.
During that same period, she began listening to real estate podcasts while working on her home.
Those conversations planted seeds that would soon grow into a completely new career.
The Courage to Start Before Feeling Ready
Taking the First Step Into Investing
Gina did not wait until she had everything figured out. She took action. She found her first deal and executed the BRRRR strategy, turning a distressed property into a cash-flowing asset.
She did not just learn. She applied.
That decision set her apart immediately.
Instead of staying comfortable in theory, she stepped into the real world of investing, where decisions matter and results are earned.
"You make your money when you buy, not when you sell."
That principle became a foundation for everything she built moving forward.
Turning Knowledge Into Opportunity
As Gina shared her journey on social media, people began to notice. They were drawn to her authenticity and her willingness to show the process, not just the outcome.
Soon, people started asking her for help.
Instead of turning them away, she saw an opportunity. She got her real estate license and stepped into a new role, not just as an investor, but as a guide for others.
Building Something Bigger Than Herself
From Agent to Team Owner Almost Overnight
Most people spend years figuring out how to grow within a team. Gina took a different path.
Within months of becoming an agent, she made a bold decision to step out on her own. That decision led to an unexpected opportunity to purchase an existing team.
She took it.
Despite having minimal experience as an agent, she stepped into leadership, ownership, and responsibility all at once.
"I don’t know how to do anything halfway."
That mindset fueled her rapid growth and set the tone for everything that followed.
Creating a Niche That Scales
Gina focused her business on investment real estate. Not just helping people buy homes, but helping them build wealth.
She built systems. She built relationships. She built trust.
Her clients were not one-time transactions. They were repeat investors who came back again and again.
This allowed her to scale in a way many agents never experience.
The Hidden Reality of Entrepreneurship
Trading Stability for Uncertainty
Leaving a stable career in healthcare was not easy. In her previous role, she could work a shift and know exactly what she would earn.
In real estate, nothing is guaranteed.
Every day requires effort. Every deal requires persistence. And sometimes, even after weeks of work, everything can fall apart in an instant.
"As an entrepreneur, you wake up every day having to go find business."
That reality forced Gina to grow, not just as a professional, but as a person.
Learning to Handle Pressure and Emotion
One of the biggest challenges was learning how to manage emotional highs and lows. Deals fall apart. Clients get anxious. Outcomes are uncertain.
Gina had to learn how to stay grounded.
She leaned on her faith, her discipline, and her ability to keep moving forward even when things did not go as planned.
"You have to leave it at the door and keep going."
Winning in a Changing Market
Adapting When Strategies Get Harder
The market has changed. Strategies like BRRRR have become more difficult. Interest rates have risen. Margins have tightened.
But Gina did not slow down.
She adapted.
She shifted her focus toward multifamily investments and creative approaches that still make the numbers work.
This ability to adjust is what separates those who survive from those who thrive.
The Power of the Right Guidance
Gina strongly believes that the right agent can make or break a deal. Negotiation, strategy, and experience matter more than most people realize.
"Your agent matters more than the market."
With the right guidance, deals can be structured in ways that create opportunity even in challenging conditions.
The Truth Most People Avoid
Why Waiting Is the Most Expensive Mistake
Many people hesitate. They wait for certainty. They wait for the perfect moment.
But that moment rarely comes.
Gina has seen it over and over again. People who wait often miss out on growth, appreciation, and momentum.
"People don’t lose money because they made a bad decision. They lose money because they didn’t make a decision at all."
Time in the market beats trying to time the market.
The Final Perspective That Changes Everything
Building a Life That Reflects Your Vision
Gina Shumway’s journey is not just about real estate. It is about taking control of your life.
It is about recognizing that comfort does not always lead to fulfillment.
It is about being willing to take risks, learn fast, and grow through challenges.
She went from a structured career to building a business, leading a team, raising a family, and helping others create wealth.
And it all started with a single decision to try something new.
"It all started from a loose tile."
Sometimes, the smallest moments lead to the biggest transformations.
Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate.
For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com.
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Contact Gina Shumway
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Mentioned References
- Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
- The One Thing by Gary Keller
- The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck by Mark Manson
- BiggerPockets
- David Greene
- Brandon Turner
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Transcript
Welcome back to the REI Agent. We are here with Gina Shumway. Gina, thank you so much for joining us today.
Absolutely, I'm super excited.
Yeah, now give us a quick bird's eye view of who you are and what you do in real estate.
Okay, my name is Gina Shumway. I own a real estate team in Chattanooga. It's called Titan Group at Keller Williams, Greater Chattanooga.
I am, like I said, I own it. I'm the team lead there. And I am also an active investor myself.
So I own a real estate team. We do specialize in investments. And then I also own a separate business entity that does investments as well.
I am happily married, mom of four, with two dogs. I love working out. And I believe that jamming to music in the car is good for the soul.
That's perfect. That's a really good summary.
We've got a lot in common. I love it. Yeah, that's super exciting.
Chattanooga is not too far from us. Actually, I think one time I had this investor group, an REI meetup locally here in Virginia with people, I wanna say, coming out of Charlottesville that were specifically targeting Chattanooga as an investment spot. Is it a pretty good, is it pretty well known?
Do a lot of people come to Chattanooga for investing?
Yes, definitely. I like to tell people that Chattanooga is Nashville like 20-ish years ago. So where Nashville has become very large and not feasible for some things, Chattanooga still very much is.
I used to call it the hidden gem. I kind of think now it's the discovered gem. We do have a lot of investors who are looking in this area and that continues to grow, which is great for business.
But also, I've also expanded and kind of started guiding investors to do, we do do Chattanooga, but also the greater Chattanooga area as it continues to grow.
That's cool. Tell us a little bit about your family. Your kids, what kind of a family are you guys?
What do you guys like to do together?
So I have four kids. They range from 14, 12, nine, and six. My two oldest swim competitively at a school called Baylor, which is in downtown Chattanooga.
And then my son is very active in football. His team actually went undefeated for the last two years in a row and they actually won the Turkey Bowl after the postseason. They did competitive travel stuff and they won.
So low-key brag there. And my six-year-old did cheer. She wants to do dance and she is the true boss in the house.
We love, we're very active. We're a very, very active family. All things athletic, all things social, very involved in our church.
And just, I tell people we work hard and we play hard. Yeah.
Okay, my mind, as you were talking, was going to your calendar. What is your system for organizing pickups and drop-offs and whose game is where and who needs, where the leotard is or, you know, what's your system there?
That is a great question and it's a ever-moving target. But what I will say is I don't know exactly where I learned time blocking, but I am very much a time blocking and calendar person. I have integrated multiple calendars into one through Google Calendar.
And so I have my business calendar and then I have a family where all of my kids' emails are attached. Obviously the youngest is not there, but. And so they all communicate so that way I'm able to keep up with everything.
It's definitely a juggling act. My husband is very supportive. And then we have, we don't have family in the area, but when things get really chaotic, my parents have come in to town before and then we just have a really good network.
They say, you know, it takes a village. And I mean, that's really true. It takes a village.
Yeah, that's huge. I'm sure like to have people help with carpooling or whoever's providing a snack or yeah, I'm sure that's super helpful. Absolutely.
Man.
Yeah, that's a lot.
It's a lot.
We haven't really gotten fully into like the sports. We have a two in gymnastics and that's like what, once a week. So it's not quite as intense as I'm sure it's gonna get.
Yeah, well, they also currently have said they hate organized sports. And so they do gymnastics, which to be fair, like Mattias and I do CrossFit, which is like the only, it's a very individualized sport that you do around people. Yeah.
So we'll see what they get into. But yeah, we haven't done the drop-off to practice piece yet.
It's a slippery slope to a CrossFit.
I have never done CrossFit. I did do a stint of, it wasn't exactly bodybuilding, but I did get into a point where I was very, I mean, I still am very health focused. I love going to the gym and stuff, but I had probably about three years where I did like all of the meal planning and all of the things and I'm very regimented.
And I actually, I do miss it. I've started to try to realign myself. It's just like you said, it's difficult with family and business and everything else.
My husband does a lot of weightlifting. He's the one that gets up at 4.30 and he goes and he makes sure that he gets it in before kids wake up. So I'm trying to get back into that.
Yeah, wow, that is really, there was a period of time where I did that. I remember, I think it was our second, we have three kids, so our second, I would actually get up and I would pump and then I would go to the gym. So I would get up at four, pump, go to the gym so he could give her a bottle and so I could get it in before we're back to doing our normal day-to-day stuff, but I can't do it.
I've forgotten all about that.
I can't, I know, black it out. I just, I can't do that anymore, but there we go.
It's true, aging sucks.
So, Gino, how long, when did you start in real estate and what kind of got you in? Were you, what were you doing before?
Okay, so I was a nurse practitioner. My story is kind of unique. I was a nurse practitioner for over a decade.
I am still technically, I work like five to 10 days a year just to keep my license current, but I am an adult gerontology acute care nurse practitioner and I'm dual certified as also a family nurse practitioner. I went to Vanderbilt and then I went to the University of Massachusetts, Boston to get my post-master's for my FNP. I did that for over a decade and actually right around the time, a little bit before COVID hit, there was a tile in my bathroom that was loose and I'm one of those people, I'm very obsessive.
I'm a little bit of a control freak and so when that tile came up, I was like, oh my gosh, we have to fix this and I was like, we don't have the money right now to just redo a whole bathroom, but I was like, but I'm pretty good with my hands. My mom had tiled before and so the next thing I know, my husband is swinging a, what is it? Basically a hammer, a sledgehammer, yes, and our entire bathroom is ripped apart and then my mom and I put it back together over the course of, I mean, it took us about six weeks.
It's a massive bathroom. After that, I was like, hey, this is really fun. So then I went and myself demoed my half bath and then I redid it and then I actually did this office, all these bookshelves and everything.
I did myself, painted. Anyway, so while I was doing that, I actually, so that happened during COVID, P.S. So hospitals, they didn't intentionally shut down, but so many people wanted to stay home that suddenly, I mean, the census went down. I think people were scared and so they actually cut our hours in half and so what I did is I just worked on my house while my kids were at home and we did different things and I would put earbuds in and I started listening to podcasts on real estate investing and flipping and I started listening to a whole bunch of stuff by David Green, Brandon Turner, some of your BiggerPockets hitters and originally, I wanted to flip a house like with myself and then I realized very quickly that that's not the best way, that I wanted to leverage time and people and things in order to actually do it more efficiently and so I decided that's what I wanted to do. I talked to my husband. My husband, like I said, has always been very supportive and so I just was like, okay.
So I contacted, I was actually introduced by somebody who's kind of like my real estate, I guess you could say mentor to a team and got contacted with an agent. She hooked me up with an agent on her team and they helped me get my first deal. I BIRD that property.
I don't know if you guys are familiar with the BIRD method.
People who aren't, but yeah.
You want me to explain it? Is that what you?
Yeah, sure, yeah, go ahead.
So I BIRD that property. So what I did is I bought a, so BIRD stands for Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat and so what you do is you buy a distressed property. So a property that someone, maybe it's at a point where nobody wants to live in it or it's super dated.
I mean, there's lots of different ways and various factors. But I purchased a property and completely rehabbed it and then I stuck a renter in it and then what you do is you go get an appraisal done once it's all nice and it's pretty and it's rented and whatever and so you get a much higher value than what you bought it for and you get a loan, a cash out refinance on that property. So you take all of your capital back because the hope is that you can buy a property and rehab the property for 70 to 75% of the after repair value and lenders will actually give you 70 to 75% of the loan to value.
And so I got all of my capital back, got a cash flowing asset and then went and did it again. So I started doing that and then I did flip as well. And so through that process, I became an experienced investor but then what happened was I posted on socials.
Like I just, I'm a very extroverted sharing person and so I would just post like, hey, here's this, this is what I did today, this or went and saw the property, this is what it looks like. I rented the property, got my cash back plus 3000 so I got paid to own. And so people came to me and they said, can you teach me how to do that?
Can you help me find a property? And I was like, well, no, I don't have a license. And then I was like, but I could.
And so I talked to my husband, he was like, you should totally do that. Your personality is so like, you would just thrive. So I went and got my license and what ended up happening was I joined the team that I initially, like I was working with.
So my agent, I joined the team of my, the team that my agent worked for. And I was on the team for about a month and I realized that my personality is not to be an agent on a team. My personality is to own and build, like build and own my own team.
And so I think I've been an agent a little over a month and I went to the team owner and I said, hey, I think you're great. I think your team is great. I just, but I aspire to be you, but I don't want to invest all this time into this team and then leave.
And so I was like, I respectfully am going to go ahead and just step away and start doing this on my own. And she actually called me that day and was like, that's so funny that you said what you said, because I have been thinking for the past like two weeks that my husband and I want to go live abroad and we can't do that while I own a team. So she was like, would you be interested in purchasing my team?
Well, Keller Williams specifically has a production requirement. You have to produce a certain amount before you can be a team owner, a team lead. And I obviously hadn't hit that.
I've been an agent for a month. And so she offered the team to me and then the agent who was my agent when I first became like an investor for my, up until that point. And so we bought the team like six weeks later.
And so I had been a real estate agent for like two and a half months when I officially bought my team. I mean, and the rest is history. So I very quickly got integrated within three or four months.
I was selling three, four, five deals a month. I hit top producer in Chattanooga my first year of real estate. And we have ever since, we consistently are within the top 10, top five usually.
And it's been a ride. So super fun, but a little crazy.
Yeah, so and you've, you said you niched into real estate investing. That's been kind of your niche. Was it, is that your whole team's niche?
Was it the team's niche before you came on or how does that look?
Yes, so the person who owned the business before me saw a need for investment real estate. And so she specifically started her business, her real estate team specifically for investment real estate. And I took that and kind of ran with it.
We specialize in investment real estate. We do have, I have a lot of clients who are here, but we really specialize with national, like national clients, people who are not local. I do have some international.
I have a client who lives, well, I can't tell you where they live because they move so much for their job. But then I have somebody in Argentina, London. I mean, we have people who actually live internationally that invest specifically in Chattanooga.
I like to joke with my clients that I couldn't pick them out of a lineup because I've never seen their face before. Literally, I have people who I've bought four or five plus deals with and I've never even seen their face. But it works because I've created a place where people can invest.
And I have a connection, a business relationship with every type of service provider that you can think of within the Chattanooga area. So a lot of people are reluctant to go make a massive purchase without ever having seen the asset or the property or things like that. But when they work with me and my team, they're able to take comfort in the fact that not only, I'm not just a sales agent, right?
Like I'm an investor myself and I have done the things and the service providers that I recommend, I have either used personally because I'm an investor myself or I have had multiple clients who have used them and give them a standing recommendation.
I think that is such a huge advantage when you do investment real estate. If you do Burr Method, if you do flips, if you do any of that kind of stuff, you just have this pool of people on call that are usually willing to work with you because you give them a lot of good business. And you have a sense of what things are gonna cost that you probably wouldn't otherwise.
And then you also have the confidence and you have the experience to say, this house would look incredible if the floors were refinished. Something like that, you know what I mean? And I think it's not something that, I think oftentimes other agents are gonna be a little bit more nervous about that, especially if they don't really, haven't gone through that process a few times, they don't know exactly how much it's gonna cost.
You might lean towards, let's just offer a credit. But if you go through a flip and you refinish the floors and or paint the whole house, like after those two things are done, hardwood refinished especially, like carpets are fine. But like if you refinish hardwoods from being like, kind of dingy and gross to like being freshly refinished and as a person that actually knows what they're doing, that's another, that's an art right there.
Please be careful with who you choose on that. That's when it gets exciting. Like you're like, okay, yep, now this is looking good.
And before you're, I don't know, I don't know about you, but often it's like, oh my gosh, this house, this better turn out. Or I mean, I'm not like actively worried about it, but like, it's just kind of like not fun to be in. And then the floors get refinished and the paint goes in and you're like, oh, that's beautiful.
This is awesome. This is gonna be marketable. I just have a listing coming up now that we've invested about $6,000 into it.
And part of it was refinishing the hardwood and it is night and day, night and day of a difference. Like it's just, now it's fresh and inviting to come into. Before it was like difficult to go through and it was difficult to see how, people won't have the vision.
The buyers won't have the vision. So even if you're not working with investors specifically, having that contacts, having that experience, I think is huge in this business.
Yeah, I think it takes a lot of, I wouldn't say like being like an artist necessarily, but like having the vision to see what something could become. And I think you have to look at that through a very different lens, which is something that I would say, it comes with experience. But what I tell my clients is when I go into a house, it's very, I'm very different than your typical person.
Or like I walk into a house and somebody's like, oh, I love these granite countertops. And I'm the one who's like opening up the cabinet doors underneath the kitchen sink so that I can look at the plumbing and see what the plumbing is. Or I'm looking at the roof to see how old I think it is.
Or when was the last time, like how old is the HVAC, the water heater, the various main service components to make sure that they look good. And then also kind of like what you touched on, a floor plan can really change a home. And so if you can look at something and say, well, what used to be the dining room and this extra closet in this home would be a fantastic bedroom and an additional bathroom.
And so you can force appreciation and really take what was a certain, like you could only get it to a certain after repair value, but if you are able to add bedrooms and bathrooms and do those specific things, then now you have elevated the property by tens of thousands of dollars when it only costs you 10,000 for the bathroom, if that, and then reframing the door for a bedroom. And so just being able to have that eye is important and it takes time. And also making sure that you know what you're talking about.
I am not a structural engineer. Like I will tell you that right away, but I can rock the property and be like, these floors are wavy or I'm nervous about these cracks, like those types of things, or like we need to get somebody, having that experience because I am an investor is vital. And then also just being able to look at something and see its potential is invaluable and it's nice.
Yeah, a hundred percent. When did you, what did your transitioning out of your job look like when you joined the team? Were you already pretty much just working the minimum hours you needed to, or how did you like, feel like you needed some certainty, some contracts on the pipeline before you jumped all the way in?
I don't know how to do anything halfway. So luckily I was working what they call PRN at the hospital, which means I am not required to work a certain amount of shifts. I was working like five days a month at that time.
And we were fortunate in that my youngest was not quite in school yet, but we found a little program for her to go to during the day. And so not all day, I did like a part anyway. But my husband had a job where luckily, we weren't completely like dependent on my income.
And so what I did is I really just jumped ship and went full throttle immediately. And I really think that as an agent, if you want to be successful, I know that there's a lot of people who don't have that ability, but the ability to be able to really invest the time, not only in just finding leads, but the education and all the things that comes with it, you'll be able to grow at an accelerated pace.
What differences did you find in the stress load that you had as a nurse practitioner versus when you became a real estate agent investor? Just what type of stress, how you carried it, how you managed it, how it felt?
That's a great question. Believe it or not, I would rather code a patient any day as far as stress level goes. It's, I thought that working at the hospital was a high stress load because you're dealing with people who are sick and all of those things.
But it's very structured and it's also like familiar quickly. The other thing about working shift work is that it's transactional, right? So you work an hour, you make an hour worth of money.
And so yes, it's stressful when you're taking care of sick people and you're having to have hard conversations. I mean, it's definitely emotionally taxing, but as far as like when the shift is over, you clock out, you leave work at work and then you go home. Like sometimes you have to process something that was really heavy that day.
Like absolutely, I'm not gonna lie, like I have traumatic stuff that has happened and I can just close my eyes and still see it. But as far as stepping into an entrepreneurial career where your income isn't guaranteed, you wake up every day. I saw this quote that I really liked that said, as an entrepreneur, you wake up every day with, what was it?
You wake up every day with a new job having to go find business. That stress level is definitely there. As somebody, I am definitely a type A, more of a controlling personality.
And so to go from something that was definitely guaranteed and known to something that is not guaranteed was definitely difficult. And I didn't do it like the traditional person where I got one deal closed and I did this and then I slowly started to grow. I went from not having any experience to suddenly I own a team and there's overhead and there's admin and there's not just having to buy and sell real estate myself, but also having to run a team and lead a team when I'd never been a leader.
So luckily I do have experience in other things that kind of helped with that. But there is a lot of stress that goes into that. And I think until you've lived it, it's kind of hard to appreciate that.
I definitely had to learn to let go. I am a very religious person. And so I've had to give it to God multiple times where I've just said, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm giving it to you.
It's very difficult when you've spent six weeks negotiating a million dollar plus deal and out of the air, it falls apart completely and you watch 25 plus thousand dollars of income that you worked weeks and weeks for just gone. That's hard. But at the same time, if you are doing the grind and you're doing the things and you are treating people well and nurturing your business, that next deal, that next investment, that next person is gonna come along.
And so the goal is to keep yourself so busy and to keep your pipeline fed and your downline fed, like all of that to the point where if you lose one, you honestly almost don't even think about it because you have these other five, six, whatever things going on. But that takes time to really learn how to cope and tolerate with that. At least for me, that was a threshold that I had to learn, especially with kids, I didn't wanna bring home.
There was a time when it was hard to walk through the door and ready to be mom and be there when in the back of your head, you're thinking about all of the various things, the plates that you're, you know.
100%.
I just had a similar conversation earlier this week about that, coming home and wanting to just, I don't know, relax, decompress, take a break when really, if you're a parent with kids at home, you're coming home ready to get to work again. And there's not, you don't have the option of having off time. And some parents, depending on how well your kids sleep, you don't even get that at night.
And then you get up and do it all over again.
Talking about last night? Yeah, it's true. And I poorly described what you're talking about with kind of being emotionally invested, I guess, in the deals as like, you know, the subtle art of not giving an F is a book that I kind of latched onto at one point.
And then somebody on the podcast was talking about how it's really just, you know, trying to remove the emotion from the situation as best as you can, and just kind of take the next rational step, like take the next rational action, and that's really all you can do. He said it a lot better than that, but I was like, that's exactly what I've been trying to say, but that sounds better than just saying I don't give an F about the deal, which isn't true. It's just there was a distinct moment.
And I think to your point, when you have enough business rolling in, it doesn't hurt as bad, because especially like if you're working with a buyer or if you're working with a seller, that person will likely still be working with you, even though this deal's falling apart. And so it's like, we're not gonna get this one, we'll get it down the line, or whatever it is. And sometimes the clients themselves, and I don't know if you have less of this in the investment space, but they also bring a lot of emotion and anxiety and all that stuff into the deal.
And that can rub off on you, you can take it on yourself.
Absolutely. I am an empathetic person, so I feel like I tend to absorb emotions, match energies, that kind of thing. And so I've definitely had to learn that just to leave it at the door, to leave the baggage at the door, and carry on.
I think much to your point, as far as like invest, one of the things that I like actually about investment real estate is, and it was actually kind of hard for me, because I would send, when I first started, I would send stuff to clients. And I had a couple who, mindset too, I love, I like the money, sometimes I like the numbers, sometimes I actually just liked the way that the property looked, like I found it cute, or I found it whatever, I hadn't completely changed my mindset completely. But I would send it to somebody, and they would just be like, no, this doesn't work, this doesn't work for me, next.
And they were just so non-emotional, and I'm such a, like, I mean, see how much I talk with my hands, like I just am not that way. So I've actually learned a lot from a lot of my clients, because they are non-emotional, and they don't get attached to that. But you really have to kind of learn how to do that, if you're going to thrive in the business, is this one isn't the one, that's okay, we'll move on, we'll find the next.
And like you said, these clients work with me, and continue to work with me. I have a client who, at any given time, we've got five different flips going, and I have another one that's very much the same. And, you know, I've done a lot of comps, for people to tell them what I think something can list for, and we go see it, it doesn't work out, and we're on to the next one.
And sometimes it's a grind, but they, if you prove your worth, like they're gonna keep working with you, and it becomes, it's at a point where, I don't have to lead generate, because at this point, the returning business of the same people over, and over, and over again, I'm at capacity, which is why I have a team of agents that work with me, because I'm at capacity, and I'm actually in the process of hiring, because the agents who are on my team are also at capacity, because it's nice, because we have, dealing with a client, it's not one transaction, and you're done, and hopefully they're gonna sell that house when they upgrade or downsize down the road. You know, it's continued repeat business over and over again, because they wanna hit their goals too.
I wanna make one quick point, and then we should probably transition, but it seems that the investing is still going strong in Chattanooga. I think a lot of people that I interview, it wouldn't feel that way in their markets. I think, you know, it's been a lot harder to pencil out the numbers, the cash flow, all that stuff with the interest rates being where they're at, with prices having increased through COVID, but it sounds like Chattanooga is still going strong with that ability.
I mean, the BRRRR method was great for us through COVID. It's been a lot harder. We've had to get creative.
Our last deal, we had to transition into a midterm rental to make the numbers work. We couldn't do a long-term rental, even though, you know, I think it was pretty much a full BRRRR property, as in we got our money out. So, I mean, that's great, and I guess if anybody's listening that wants to look into the market, it sounds like Chattanooga is still good.
Is that accurate? I mean, it sounds like you're still rolling.
I am still rolling. A very large majority of my business is still investment real estate. What I will say is the BRRRR method is difficult.
I currently am not... The last deal that I BRRRR'd is I took an industrial warehouse and I turned it into a quadruplex on the backside of Signal Mountain, where there was no zoning requirements, so I was able to just automatically do that. That was a beast, by the way, which we don't have time for.
But the actual BRRRR method right now is very difficult, and I don't have many clients who are doing it. They are doing flips, and then my bread and butter in what I do all day long is multifamily, because finding a single-family home that will cash flow when you rent it is very, very difficult. I will say our numbers are still substantially better than many other markets.
I have so many clients who are from California, New York, New Jersey, and then, believe it or not, Florida. Because of all the natural disasters and everything, their insurance rates are so high that it is eating all of their cash flow, and so I have a lot of clients who are 1031 exchanging into the Chattanooga market, and they don't even blink an eye at our prices to our rent ratios. Even if they don't necessarily cash flow, they're like, well, they'll just put down a little extra money, and then the numbers work for them because it's still so much better than where they are used to investing.
So a lot of multifamily and then a lot of flips is what I am seeing because I can make multifamily cash flow because you're able to get, with more doors, you're able to get more income on generally not as large of a purchase price as if you were to buy, say, four single-family homes, and then rent those four single-family homes versus if you bought a quadruplex. You can buy multifamily for like 100,000 or maybe a little bit more per door, depending on if it needs work, rehab, that kind of thing. So the numbers do still work, but it can be a challenge, but I thrive off of a challenge, so.
Yep, sounds like it. It all started from a loose tile.
It all started from a loose tile, it did. No, it really did, which I think is really funny. I just started working on my house and listening to podcasts, so.
I love it. Gina, do you have some golden nuggets prepared for us, for our listeners?
Yes, so what I would say, and I've kind of talked a little bit about some of these, is the deal is made at the purchase, not the sale. What I see so many times is people who so badly want to get their first deal under contract that they will fudge the numbers in order to force a deal, and that just doesn't work. Like, if the numbers don't work, the numbers don't work, and so what we have to do is we have to go and we have to negotiate a better price or we move on to the next thing.
Appreciation is a bonus, but profit is created when you buy it. So that's the biggest thing I would say, is you make your money when you buy, not when you sell.
I love it. If I could just add one thing to that, Gina, I think that is one reason people should really, really think about subject to deals, because typically the only way a subject to deal works is if that purchase price is high. And so it really has to make sense long-term for it to work out, because to your point, like, yeah, you're not buying with the possibility of really having a lot of equity in the property, and that can put you in a tight spot.
I mean, that's the only reason the sellers are selling it that way, right?
Yep, yep. I have done, I've done some subject to, I own a hybrid property, and those types of things. I think there's, which we can't really unpack that today, but I think there's definitely pros and cons about doing that that way, the subject to.
You can get in at a great entry price, but I think you also need to be careful about that too, because if you have zero equity in the deal, I really hope that you know what you're doing going forward, because there's a reason why sellers are selling that way.
Exactly, exactly, I'm not saying it can't work, it's just that is often the trade-off, is that purchase price and having any kind of equity. Sorry, what else do you have?
Oh, no, no, you're fine, sorry, I can totally get derailed. I love talking about this stuff. So the other thing I would just say is your agent matters more than the market.
So back to your point on, you know, in other markets it doesn't work. Well, I do think there's other markets that are exponentially more difficult than mine, but your agent is important. So just a quick example, I have a duplex that is closing for one of my clients next week, and we initially went under contract for 290.
It needed probably about 60,000 of work, but we estimated the ARV to be higher than 400. She's not planning to burr it, she just wanted to make sure that she had a little bit of equity and that with all the money she had put in, she wasn't gonna be underwater because it will definitely cash flow based off of where it is and the numbers of beds and bathrooms. But still, once we did the inspection and some things, we realized that it needed more work than we thought.
And so her super awesome agent negotiated an additional $30,000 off of purchase price because we already got the max seller credits. So, which I can't go to that either, but so we negotiated down on the price so she was able to get it for 260. And by the time that she puts in the 60,000, she's actually probably gonna have 60 plus in equity.
And so if your agent knows what they're doing, they know how to leverage the inspection and quotes to get the purchase price where it needs to be. And some other creative, there's other creative ways that you can make a deal work, not just with creative financing, but there's some other avenues there. And so if your agent knows what they're doing, they can save you exponentially more than they cost to have one.
And then my third one, as I would say, is that most people wait too long because they're trying to feel certain. And there's a lot of people who have analysis paralysis, and I'm not saying, it's almost countering what I said before, where you have to make sure that you get the right deal, but at the same time, there's some people who they wait and they wait and they wait and they wait. And people didn't want to buy during COVID because houses were flying off the shelf for 20,000 over appraisal, but people were buying at a 2% interest, I mean, two and a half percent interest rate.
Their PMI or their pity is way lower than what it would be now because their interest rate was so low. So yes, they were paying 10, maybe $20,000 more for a property, which was hard for them to conceptually wrap their brain around. But now that property is still worth more than it was then, but now somebody else who wanted to buy it would have to buy it now at a six, seven interest rate.
And so there's a lot of people who are kicking themselves for not jumping in at that time, because now they would be that much farther ahead. And then now there's people who are like, oh, well, I don't want to purchase because of the interest rate. But I mean, I can show you the data in the last two years, home prices in just the general market have increased, the median home price was like 300,000 here in Chattanooga two years ago, and now it's like 339.
So every year that you wait, you're losing money. So I think people don't lose money in real estate because they couldn't make a decision, or because they made a bad decision, they lose money because they didn't make a decision at all. And so I love telling people that your time in the market is more important than your timing in the market.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like planting a tree, the best time was 20 years ago, the next best time is today.
Yes.
And yeah, it's definitely, yeah, get it, make sure you write your numbers, make sure that it's a deal still, it still works out, still pencils out, but yeah, I agree completely. And then do you have a favorite book, a fundamental book you think everybody should read, or one you're currently really enjoying?
So I have two, and I know everybody says this one, but really and truly, because I used to be a nurse practitioner, and I thought the only way you could make money was if you were in healthcare, an attorney, or like a dentist. When I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I learned about basically leverage and making your money work for you, it completely transformed my mindset. And I think anybody who has not read that book needs to read that book.
And then the other one would be, I'm currently reading slash listening to The One Thing by Gary Keller, and that has had some super hard truths that I am like, got it, I gotta make some changes in my life. So those would probably be the two books that I would say listen slash read.
100%, yeah, those are great. And then Gina, you said you were really active when you were getting into real estate on social media. I would imagine you're still doing stuff on social media.
Where can people follow you if they're interested in seeing more, or is there any websites that they could go to?
Yeah, absolutely. So my personal handle on Instagram is @gina.shumway. My team Facebook is Titan Group at Keller Williams Greater Chattanooga, where you can actually see what we're helping clients buy and sell and those types of things. And then we do have a website, which is www.titangroupchatt.com, titangroupchatt.com, and that you can find me, hit me up. I love to talk, even if you're not sure that you're ready to invest in real estate, like getting an idea of where to start and where to begin. You won't, you just won't regret it. Awesome.
Well, Gina, thank you so much for being on the show. It was a lot of fun talking to you.
Yeah, same, I loved it. Thank you so much.
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