From Ethical Dilemmas to Real Impact: Building Wealth the Right Way with Caleb Christopher
Key Takeaways
- Creative finance becomes powerful when used as a problem-solving tool rooted in ethics and responsibility.
- Building a business without balance can cost more than it earns if family and health are neglected.
- True investing success requires cash reserves, discipline, and long-term thinking beyond the deal.
United States Real Estate Investor®
The REI Agent with Caleb Christopher
https://youtu.be/QQuyYL1CVcY
United States Real Estate Investor®
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A Conversation That Challenges Everything You Thought You Knew
This episode unfolds as more than a conversation about deals and contracts. It becomes a powerful reflection on integrity, responsibility, and what it truly means to build wealth the right way.
Caleb Christopher brings a raw and honest perspective that forces listeners to rethink how they approach real estate and business.
His journey is not polished or perfect. It is real. And that is exactly what makes it powerful.
From Ordinary Beginnings to an Uncommon Path
How a Risk Mindset Became a Superpower
Caleb did not enter real estate through a glamorous doorway. His early career in security and cybersecurity shaped the way he sees the world. Everything became about risk, structure, and protection.
That mindset carried directly into his real estate journey, where contracts were not just paperwork but tools to protect people and create better outcomes.
He became obsessed with understanding the fine details that most people ignore. That obsession turned into an edge.
"I'm a contracts guy. I'm a nerd. I like paperwork."
This simple statement reveals a deeper truth. Success often comes from leaning into what others overlook.
The Moment That Changed Everything
When Success Started to Feel Wrong
Early in his career, Caleb was doing everything right on paper. He followed the system. He closed deals. He executed exactly how he was trained.
But something did not sit right.
He realized that deals were being passed along in ways that could break promises made to sellers. That moment created a deep internal conflict.
"I just made promises to that seller. I don't know that the person you're gonna hand this to is gonna keep my promises."
That realization became the turning point. He chose to build systems that prioritize safety, legality, and ethics over quick profits.
Creative Finance Is Not What People Think
Breaking the Misconceptions
Creative finance often carries a reputation that makes people uneasy. It sounds complicated. It sounds risky. And sometimes, it is misunderstood.
Caleb explains it in a way that brings clarity. It is not about manipulation. It is about solving problems that traditional methods cannot solve.
Whether it is subject-to deals, seller financing, or hybrid strategies, the goal remains the same. Help people find a solution that actually works for their situation.
"Creative finance is weird. It's not normal."
And that is exactly why it works. It lives outside the limitations of traditional thinking.
The Truth About Wholesalers and Agents
Two Worlds That Are More Similar Than Different
There is often tension between wholesalers and agents. Each side sees the other through a lens of skepticism.
Caleb strips that tension down to its core. At the end of the day, both are solving the same problem.
They are connecting buyers and sellers. They are creating movement in the market. The difference is simply who pays them.
"It's the same business model. It's the same pitch. It's the same communication."
This perspective challenges the labels people cling to and replaces them with a focus on outcomes.
The Hidden Cost of the Grind
When Building Success Starts Breaking Your Life
Entrepreneurship often glorifies long hours and nonstop work. Caleb lived that reality.
He worked 12 to 18 hour days. He built something from nothing. But in the process, he lost something that mattered even more.
Time with his family.
One moment changed everything.
"It had been two and a half days that I had been gone and he didn't even notice."
That realization forced a shift. Success without presence was not success at all.
Redefining What Success Looks Like
Choosing Balance Over Burnout
Caleb began rebuilding his life with intention. He set boundaries. He created space for family. He learned to step back from the constant grind.
It was not easy. Letting go of control never is.
"The grind is easier than the build."
That truth hits hard. It is easier to stay busy than to build something sustainable.
But real growth happens when you step into leadership, not just labor.
The Reality No One Talks About
Building Wealth Without the Illusion
In a world full of highlight reels, Caleb brings something rare. Honesty.
He openly shares that his journey is not filled with constant wins. There are losses. There are struggles. There are seasons where the numbers do not look impressive.
"I'm equity rich and cash poor."
This is the part most people never hear. Building something meaningful takes time. And sometimes, it requires sacrifice.
The Golden Rule Every Investor Must Understand
Why Cash Matters More Than You Think
One of the most powerful lessons Caleb shares is about responsibility.
Too many investors focus on getting into deals with no money out of pocket. But they forget the responsibility that comes after the deal closes.
"It's cool to do a deal with zero out of pocket. It is unethical to do a deal with zero in your pocket."
This principle separates professionals from amateurs. Real investing is not just about getting deals. It is about being prepared to handle what comes next.
A Book That Ignited the Journey
The Moment Everything Clicked
Like many investors, Caleb points to one book that changed his perspective completely.
"If you haven't read Rich Dad Poor Dad, you're an idiot. Go read it."
It was not just a recommendation. It was a wake-up call.
That book shifted his thinking from earning income to building assets. From working for money to making money work for him.
The Bigger Picture of It All
Building a Life That Actually Matters
This episode is not just about real estate. It is about alignment.
It is about building something that supports your life instead of consuming it. It is about doing business in a way that you can be proud of.
And most importantly, it is about understanding that success is not just measured in dollars.
The Final Takeaway
Do It Right or Do Not Do It at All
Caleb Christopher leaves listeners with a message that is simple but powerful.
Do not chase shortcuts. Do not sacrifice integrity. Do not build something that costs you everything else.
Instead, build slowly. Build intentionally. And build in a way that lasts.
Because in the end, the goal is not just to win in business.
It is to win in life.
Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate.
For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com.
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Transcript
Welcome back to the REI Agent. We are here with Caleb. Christopher, Caleb, thanks so much for joining us today.
It's an honor and a pleasure, thank you.
Caleb, we had a lot of fun kind of off air before we started here. Besides being a friend's fan and a movie quoting connoisseur, who are you and what do you do in real estate?
So I own a couple of rentals. Matter of fact, movie quotes was, I was at my rental property that's down the street from me. It just vacated and I was doing a walkthrough for a punch list and I saw the backdoor neighbor and I said, hey, I don't think I know your name.
And he came over and he said something and he quoted Dumb and Dumber. And I was like, yeah, you know, fist bump. And I'm like, this is a great relationship.
Best friends.
Love you. What's your phone number, man? Let's talk.
That's one I can't quote.
That's my third love language is movie quotes. So I own several rental properties. So I am an active investor and owner operator.
I've got some property managed, but the ones that are closest to me, I'm like, I'll self-manage a couple. I own Creative TC, which is transaction consulting for creative finance deals. And I own Creative Title Company, which is in Colorado and soon to be Tennessee.
That's where I'm at right now with my real estate businesses and journey.
It's, Caleb, what you're doing is so helpful for people. I think there is, it's really difficult to find, A, places to close, creative deals sometimes. And then also if you can find, you know, an attorney or whoever to maybe entertain it, they often don't really have the knowledge, the frame of reference to understand how to do things properly.
Can I tell you something though? Like, I'm a contracts guy. I'm a nerd.
I like paperwork. I like the Oxford comma for my, shout out to anybody else who knows what that is. Hoorah.
The thing is I end up correcting attorneys a lot of the time. So guess what two states I don't do business? New York, New Jersey.
They do not like unlicensed Hal telling them anything. I'm like, there's a better way to do this. Oh, you should be using this document.
Hey, the context says that we should be doing A, B, and C. They do not want to hear from me. So I'm just some guy that's helping me create a finance deal, safe, legal, and ethical.
And what I put in my scope of work to kind of defend, why are they turning to an unlicensed person like Caleb and his team for anything related to a real estate transaction where attorneys are probably the best choice? I don't say that they're not. The problem is finding a creative finance capable, a creative finance prepared attorney who can get up to speed and do what you need to do within the two weeks left you've got before closing.
I've just been there and done that with dozens of transactions per month for four years now. Our four year anniversary is in like two weeks. Wow, that's awesome.
No, a hundred percent. It's not the common way of often doing things. And I think that if you're not in a business, or you don't have clientele that do a lot of these kind of transactions, it's gonna be like studying a different type of law almost, right?
Than what they might be, even if it's still real estate.
Creative finance is weird. I'll be the first one to say it. I own two companies that specialize in creative finance.
It is weird, it's not normal. So you're not gonna find a normal person who does not normal stuff. You need somebody who's been there and done that a dozen times and who can hold your hands.
Not just a dozen times, dozens and hundreds of times.
Before we get more into this, what got you started with real estate? What did you do before you were in real estate? And how did it lead to being a creative finance person?
Well, I got into IT and cybersecurity after I did like a five and a half year stint in the prison system in Kansas.
I'm glad you turned your life around.
As a guard.
Yeah, it felt like a sentence though.
Eight hours a day, five and a half years of that. That was when I resolved not to work for government again. Sure.
It's not a meritocracy. You can be really good at what you do and still get stuck in bad posts, et cetera. So it's seniority rules.
I'm not for it. But I learned a lot because I was working physical security and risk management. And then I switched to IT, which was cool.
I'm a nerd. But I switched from IT and upgraded. I got a bachelor's degree in cybersecurity and risk management.
And so I've got this risk management approach to everything I do, which guess what? I read court cases. I read contracts.
I write contracts. One of my wholesaler guys, right? So I help more than just wholesalers, but also agents.
But one of my wholesalers just got gypped a little over, and they're in the five figures, by a title company who just didn't give them their assignment fee.
Oh, wow.
Long story short, they were using my contract and my assignment contract. So my purchase contract and assignment. And I'm like, these people are dead to rights.
There's no possible way that this is gonna go through. You've got them dead to rights. So after debates, their attorney, the title company's attorney is claiming some technicality.
And I told the wholesaler, I'm like, if there's a hole in my paperwork, there are hundreds and hundreds of people who use my docs because they're better. And I genuinely believe that. And they are.
But if there's a hole, I need to know about it. So I'll go havesy with you on the lawsuit. Let's go.
So I think next week we're gonna file. And I'm hoping to get that person back their money and then legal fees and get paid back my havesy.
Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's an interesting space for sure. I think subject to is one probably topic we could talk about.
Wholesaling is, I'm sure, another. There's a lot of different things we could talk about here. But maybe start with explaining wholesaling and maybe some of the challenges that you see.
If you're talking to an agent, they may not be as familiar with it and may also see it, it can seem a little predatory on the outside at times. So could you explain that a little bit?
Yeah, I'm gonna start with a quote. I saw something, a picture of a chessboard, and it said, the white pieces and the black pieces are bitter enemies. However, the people moving those pieces are often friends.
And that's kind of a bit of the perspective of, I think of wholesalers versus real estate agents. But the buyers, the buyers and the investors and the sellers can be pretty good friends. Meanwhile, you guys are like bitterest of enemies.
There's good wholesalers and bad wholesalers. There's good agents and bad agents. If you're out to help people, you're out to help people.
If you're looking out for number one, you're looking out for number one. Just recognize the type of person you're dealing with and get over your classifications, licensed or unlicensed. I'm unlicensed and I help more people than most agents, easily, because I care about doing good.
So a wholesaler is somebody who finds markets to sell potential sellers, prospects. So they choose a prospect and they try to convert that prospect into a lead. They reach out.
Actually, I'm gonna tell you something. If I ran a challenge and I'm running a wholesaler challenge next month in Colorado, a dealmaker challenge. If I ran a challenge for wholesalers and a challenge for agents, I just would do the same challenge.
I just wouldn't put those two groups in the same room. I could run those two in parallel. All right, everybody, pick up your phone, dial, start dialing your list.
Hey, would you like to sell your house? Great, I'd like to make a cash offer. Switch classrooms.
Oh, great, I've got a listing agreement. Let me come visit the house and let's start taking photos. It's the same business model.
It's the same pitch. It's the same communication. It's just different paperwork.
Calm down a little bit, you know?
Yeah, and often different motivations from the sellers, right?
Yeah, yeah, and so some sellers are better for one and some are better for the other. And so if you want walkthroughs and you can pass inspection, great, go with an agent. If you can't pass inspection or don't wanna deal with walkthroughs and you just want a quick exit, get the wholesaler.
There's plenty of uneducated, unprofessional people on both sides of the fence. I can't say one's better than the other.
Totally.
Did I answer the question or just go off on like seven rabbit trails?
No, no, I think it's just, so basically a wholesaler would be, you know, getting, instead of putting something on the market with a contract to get a commission off of it. For six months, by the way. They are, yeah, depending on the market.
They are gonna be, typically this is, like you said, like it's a more distressed home that might not be able to, they need quick cash, depending, there's a lot of different reasons why somebody is gonna wanna kind of a fast process to close and a wholesaler will typically get a house under contract and then they more or less sell the contract to an investor and there's like a fee involved. So if they have it under contract for $100,000 and they sell the contract to somebody for $120,000, they would get that $20,000 difference.
Yeah, so I think the difference comes down to who pays the person. Let's put agents and wholesalers in the same bucket. Who pays you?
The difference is on an agent's deal, the seller pays the agent for marketing and getting the deal sold. On the other side, on the wholesaler side, it's the buyer who pays a fee to the wholesaler for finding the deal and connecting to it. That's pretty much the only difference.
It's pretty close to the same dollars in most deals, by the way. So by the time we're done, you can't call wholesalers unethical just because they made $40,000 on a deal when the agent would have made about the same. Percentage-wise, it's insignificant difference in most cases.
Everybody's in the business of moving houses and you help people in different ways. So next, next question.
Yeah. Yeah, that's mainly for the people that may not be aware of what that is. What are some of the challenges that you see with title companies and how do you help consult how to close a wholesale deal?
Are there double closes? What are typically the processes you go through there?
Yeah, I mean, it goes back to when I started in real estate, I joined a wholesale team as a lead manager and underwriter. My job was to close creative deals. When somebody said no to a cash offer, I was the guy who would call and say, hey, I understand that offer doesn't work.
Tell me your situation, right? Let's disqualify cash, realtor, and keeping it because if realtor's a good option, let's do that. So the cash offer we already know doesn't work.
Realtor, why won't you sell with a realtor? Well, I don't wanna pay their commissions, okay? Or I don't wanna do walkthroughs.
Whatever the seller's reason is, my goal is to disqualify cash, realtor, and keeping it before I go creative. If you've got somebody slinging creative terms without disqualifying those first three first, you may not have a deal on your hands a lot of times. And then that third one, why don't you just keep it?
You don't like fixing toilets? If the seller can give me a reason why cash, realtor, and keeping it won't work and they still wanna sell, guess what? I get to go from slinging offers at them to sitting next to them at the table and saying, okay, here's what, let's do this together.
Here's what I can do with you, Mr. Seller. And I like that pivot. It makes me to the position where I'm helping and I get to understand their story.
And I get a right to ask questions that they would not otherwise answer to somebody who's just slinging offers. And so creative finance becomes a problem, a solution to problems. And that's what I like about creative finance.
So I got into it by being a lead manager on a wholesaler team. And then I did a couple of deals, creative deals. Hey, let me just take over your payments, right?
The cash offer doesn't work, but I can pay your price if you let me just take over your payments. I'll pay the mortgage for you, cool. This is my first couple of deals.
Then I, as a lead manager, got it under contract. And then the people who own the company wanted to sell that contract off. And I'm like, hey, I just made promises to that seller.
I don't know that the person you're gonna hand this to is gonna keep my promises. That's not cool by me. And so now I've got this moral ethical dilemma, like I said and did everything I was trained to do, but now people could be getting jacked intentionally or not.
This isn't cool by me. And so I set out to make these deals safe, legal, and ethical and that's been my mission ever since, what, 21, 22? And so CreativeTC was the first company.
And then once I started touching enough of these deals, and I'm helping not just wholesalers, but sellers and agents too. I have plenty of agents who are like, I'm getting all these offers. Which ones do I take?
Which should I consider? What do I need to watch out for? Is it okay if they assign it?
Let's talk through it. And so to that end, I have free 15 minute consults. I wanna be at the lighthouse to keep you from crashing into the rocks because I think creative finance is fantastic tool, but it's not for everybody.
It is weird and you need to enter into it with having had the right discussions and asked the right questions.
No, I think that often when you're getting into real estate, if you wanna be an investor as well or not, usually often it's the starting point is being an agent or a wholesaler. There's kind of like two different paths, right? You could probably do both.
I won't get into that right now, but that's often the starting point. But I think there is like a next step, right? So like if you want to start owning the properties as well, if you wanna start having some more creative ways of solving the people's problems, like you're saying, learning the creative solutions is I think really important.
I think that you can really level up your game as a wholesaler, as a real estate agent by having those extra tools because subject two is gonna work in a situation that something else won't, et cetera. And so knowing those options is huge. What are some of the common creative methods that you talk about and can you explain them a little bit?
Yeah, so just as a reminder, we touch dozens of these deals every month at CreativeTC and have literally hundreds of five-star reviews because we're asking questions, because we wanna understand why are you doing a sub two? Do you know why you're doing a sub two? Do you understand the credit implications?
So a lot of times it'll be seller finance, subject two, which is taking over somebody else's payments. I get the deed, I make your payments, your credit's still on the line. A combination of those two, a hybrid of some sort, which could be considered a wraparound mortgage.
I mean, there's a ton of different sub classifications and ways to do it weird, but usually it's taking over somebody else's payments or if they own it free and clear, making payments to them and turning them into the bank. There's various levels of that. You can also do a lease with an option to purchase and a sandwich lease option.
So we could spend three episodes just talking about the technicalities of these different deal types. And I think I've built a chart, which maybe if you have show notes, I can just put a link to that in there.
Yeah, 100%. I know you're probably itching over here to ask about how- I was wondering- I was waiting for my window, I'm just waiting. Yeah, I've been going off, yeah.
She was drinking a lot of coffee before the show. I know she's raring to go.
I wanted to hear a little bit about your work rhythm because I know you founded your own business. I'm curious if you work like a nine to five or if your work rhythm is different and how that works with your family rhythm.
Yeah, as an entrepreneur, I mean, I started Creative TC because I saw, I have this moral compulsion, like somebody's gotta do something about this and nobody else, I'm looking around, nobody else is gonna do it, so it's gonna be me, right? Be the change you wanna see. That company took off as my full-time job was winding down because it was a government contracts job and the contracts were drying up, so I had a drop-dead date where I had, like this company had to support me, so I'm in a couple of real estate communities and most of my business comes from those.
My first year and a half, I was working 12 to 18 hour days and I had to tell my wife, like, hey, we're in this weird spot in life, you don't get me except on the weekends. And that was only after a while of me not being available at all, ever. I work from home, this is my basement in Kansas right here.
And I was at home and unavailable to my wife and my family. I've got four kids now, I didn't at the time, but that was definitely a challenge and we've gone, it took a long time to be able to hand off my management duties to somebody else. Entrepreneurship is not easy.
How old were your kids, however many you had at that time? What stage was that in?
I think I had three at the time, I've got four now, and so they're about three years apart each, so somewhere between seven, I think the oldest was seven or eight at the time, he's about to turn 13 now. The turning point for me, the heart rending, ah, moment for me was in June of 2022, I do remember this, I went to a mastermind, stayed at the guy's house and it was in Arizona and it was day two and a half, I'd been gone for two and a half days and my wife texted me to say, hey, Ezra just asked, my oldest son, seven, he just asked where you were and what I realized was it had been two and a half days that I had been gone from the house and he didn't even notice until day two and a half. Where's dad? I haven't seen him in two days and I was like, because he never sees me anyways.
He sees me at dinnertime and that's about it. What a condemnation for me as a father, like, you're doing it wrong. I'm working hard, sure, but I'm not, I'm supporting my family, but I'm not being there for my family.
Where's the balance? And that was a critical question for me while I was on that trip and I resolved that something had to change and so, absolutely, when I get off, we don't have a hard stop at 5 p.m., but that regulation has come in, personal regulation, it's about 5 p.m., I'm off and I'm not messing on my phone very much. I still screw up and we have a sit down dinner.
We've got a too small kitchen with a too small table with folding chairs and that's been our dining table and we cram all six of us around that table and we have dinner together every night and then I turn stuff off on the weekends, just, nah, sorry, I'm home on the weekends.
On the weekends, you don't touch it at all. Don't look at it till Monday.
Hard stop. I mean, I see stuff come in, but I don't respond to stuff, right? Nobody's gonna die over the weekend.
If somebody has an emergency, I'll take a call, but I've got a team and they're off for the weekends too and I wanna protect their time.
Yeah, that's a big difference. It is really, really tough to juggle. Did you ever notice when you did, especially during the time when you were working a lot, when you would come upstairs or when you did have a minute with the kids or needed to do bedtime, did you realize too, like maybe they had a specific routine with mom that you were a little bit out of the loop on just because you had been working a lot?
Just things like that.
Yeah, I mean, that's still the case, but it's different age brackets. I've been a youth leader before at my church and I tend to connect with the middle and high school kids way better than the elementaries. Like I'm not interested in leading or teaching the younger children's church, not my style, not my favorite age to deal with.
That's fine. And so maybe this is bad for me to say, but it's honest at least. I love all my kids, but my favorite time to interact with them is as they're getting older.
And the 10, my oldest is almost 13. So age 10 and up has been my favorite so far. I engage more directly.
I've got movie quotes. We talk in movie quotes and stuff like that. That's where I engage mentally and socially with my children.
My youngest asked me to read. I'm like, sure, let's go read a book. And I love them, but I enjoy spending time specifically as they get older.
The relationship does start to change pretty significantly. So our oldest is nine. She just turned nine in February.
And I have noticed a shift in the level of conversation we can have with her.
And I think- And I knew that coming into having kids. So maybe that was, I don't know, but I don't feel bad about it. It's just, I engage way better with the older children.
I mean, I taught a Bible study about, and I used the word succotude to represent us in front of God, like the level of our succotude. And my wife is like, I'm not sure the other parents would like you saying that. I'm like, they're teen kids.
This is how I communicate. Sorry. Make me not a youth leader then.
That's funny.
Yeah. Well, it sounds like, I mean, there have been a lot of changes over the last several years. And you have, there was an adjustment period where you had to, sounds like from what I heard you say, really wrestle with what kind of balance feels good to you and to your family, and in a way that the business can be successful.
Do you feel like you've gotten there at this point?
I'm comfortable with the balance. Of course, I would love more time. And as I've shifted to more CEO type, I don't want to call myself a CEO of a 14, 15 person company.
I don't feel that's the right title. President, leader, manager, whatever. But as I shift into more of that CEO style role, I'm handing stuff off and I need to not be the guy that does any of the things.
So for the title company, my two key hires, I just secured a marketing manager, like a director of marketing. And I'm still hunting, in case anybody's listening, for a full-time director of sales in the Denver area. But those two key hires will allow me to step back and work on and not in.
But I have actively resisted. We raised capital for this company, and so I have a duty to my investors, but I also need to not be the sales guy. I need to be a bonus to the sales guy and a bonus to the marketing leader.
And I just do these drive-bys and I've got great ideas, but I'm not all fireworks the whole time.
I think what we're talking about here is very common for driven entrepreneurial-type people is that that grind phase is kind of like almost more natural than the stepping-back phase and trying to- It is easier to grind, yes.
And in the last six months, which is when I really shifted to working on being the owner more than the operator, I can't tell you how many days I wake up where I'm like, I just wish somebody would tell me what to do today. Because my default is, let me just open a file and work it and start emailing and calling people and doing the work, the busy work of the day. That's easy.
But the other stuff that's more important is bigger. It's longer-term vision. I'm not a 10-year vision guy.
I know people who are. I don't know many people who've got a 10-year vision. I know some people with a five-year vision.
I'm a one- to three-year vision guy. I am a visionary, but not super long-term. I don't see the industry change in front of me.
I just know what's right and I know where I wanna be in a year or two.
Did you read books? What kind of practices did you do to start being able to delegate, to start hiring, to be able to... Did you struggle with controlling everything and being able to let that go?
I mean, what was that process like for you?
Tears your soul apart. Yeah, I like control. I'm a smart guy and I can typically do things better than the average than anyone else that I know.
And I don't know how else to say that, right? The thing about founders is they believe they can do it better, which is why they found something. They start something because they believe they can.
And I know I can do it better than most people, which is why I've started companies. And it's tough handing stuff off. Employees, co-managers, I love you.
You're not me, right? Letting go of stuff. You have to let go of...
My standard is like off the screen and I still don't even meet my own standard. How is anyone else going to? And I have to be okay with this.
That's really hard.
Yeah, 100%. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with. And real estate agents, they are not really thinking I'm starting a company.
I'm starting, you know what I mean? That they're gonna start selling real estate, but there are a lot of different hats that you have to wear, a lot of different things that you have to do and figure out and be good at. And to then get really good at something and then be able to realize, okay, I need help.
I need to hire out. I need to do things that are moving the needle more for the business and not be bogged down by the things that really aren't the best use of your time. So, I mean, it's a struggle for a lot of people.
And again, like that whole, the grind is easier for a lot of people that are wired this way and to step back and take a realization that there are other things that are important, like your family. You're gonna wake up and they're gonna be grown and gone.
I think that's a really good, like maybe T-shirt quotable thing. Like the grind is easier than the build. It's easier to just get a checklist and do something.
Yeah.
I think I was just thinking when you were talking, you know, when you're building a team or a system where you don't have to do the grind so much, that stepping back phase seems just really tough because you almost have to do that to allow space for opportunity for other people to step in. And then it sounds like you were trying to figure out what do I do in the meantime while I watch this, hopefully begin to grow. Spiral.
No. No. Okay, I'm more of an optimist than you are.
Yeah. One of the things that comes to mind, what I've noticed. So, transaction coordination and consulting companies.
Now, TC, everybody thinks transaction coordinator. Yes, that's an administrative assistant role. I don't think it's worth that much dollars wise.
It adds value to your business, et cetera. So creative TC is transaction consulting could because we do way more than just the coordination. But the question becomes, do you have a job or a business?
The same thing, I would pose the same question to an agent. Do you have a job or do you have a business? And generally, if you go for broker versus agent, you tend towards business rather than job, but you can still delegate a lot of stuff and be an individual agent under a brokerage and have a business rather than a job.
And so what I have found in my TC world is that my competitors, many of them have good paying jobs. I have a badly paying business, but we're performing the same. We're pretty close to it.
Because when I add the overhead of making it into a whole business, I can take a day off anytime, right? I have achieved that level. My kids who have a soccer game or I wanna do something, I'm gone because I don't run files and I have a business.
But the business model of being a TC, hmm, not that profitable. Good paying job, not great paying business. But it is a solid foundation from which I built a title company because I see and touch so many creative deals.
I correct title companies, I correct attorneys. We've built a really good brand with five-star reviews out the wazoo. Or why not add a lane?
It's not a pivot, I'm not changing directions. I'm just adding to what we do. It's a 70% overlap between what our knowledge is here and what the knowledge is in the second lane, which is title.
And so starting a title company was a natural next step for me. I spent a year and a half looking to buy one. They just wanted a premium on their COVID numbers.
And I'm like, that's not the same market as we're entering for the next three years. So I'm not paying that. So we started a company and I was blessed to be able to raise $320,000 of capital to get this thing off the ground.
And now I'm on the key hires phase, which took longer than I thought it would. But I'm used to hiring entry-level rather than department head level. So note to self and note to anyone else, if you're hiring at department head level, give yourself six months to hire.
It takes a while, don't make the wrong hire. But that's where I'm at right now.
Yeah, that's fascinating stuff. How do you feel like your health wellbeing has shifted going through that hard transition of delegating and not just grinding?
I told you I'd be honest, didn't I?
Yeah.
I haven't had health insurance in, I don't know, I can't even count, I don't even know how many years. Since 2015, 2014? No, 2019.
I haven't had health insurance since 2019. So seven years. The companies that I've started, I chose a difficult business model.
I saw a problem that I wanted to solve. So it's a passion thing and I enjoy what I do. But dude, I'm equity rich and cash poor.
I've got rental properties that are paying down. But other than that, we're just maintaining and we're doing good in the world and maintaining. So I'm not living a hard life, but it's not luxurious either.
Sure.
I'm hoping the title company being more mainstream and more profitable will change that, but it's only six months old. Sure.
Yeah, yeah. What are some things that tend to help you feel, I guess I would just say just more calm and relaxed. Like when you are feeling kind of the stress of the business, what do you tend to do?
Take a nap, straight up.
Yeah.
I like work, number one. So one of the things I can do to relax is just take a task list and start executing. And it's not closest to the money.
It's busy work. I can turn my brain off. It's work that's so simple, I can turn my brain off.
Other times, it's driving to conferences instead of flying. So I've got more time, listen to audio books, get away from everyone and everything. I've got an excuse not to respond to stuff.
I tend to be an introvert, like I recharge by being alone. So having that time, and I'm an ideator. I think and I have a strong sense of wonder and just, I like to talk ideas out loud that will never come to fruition, which has been a challenge in my marriage because I'm like, oh, we could do this.
And my wife is thinking like I'm making life changes on us.
And I'm like, she doesn't relate to that at all.
No intention of any of that stuff. Well, why'd you talk about it? Not that she has that tone with me, but it's like, that's how she feels for sure, I can tell.
I just like to talk through stuff that I'm not even, she likes to talk through stuff too. And it's, I mean, some of the stuff she likes to talk through is stuff that I don't care about, stuff I talk to, stuff she doesn't care about. So, you know, I saw this tip that said, put a percentage on your ideas before you start talking through them.
And I'm like, here's a 5% idea. And she knows she can just tune it out because it ain't gonna happen.
Oh, interesting.
And she'll listen to it and engage in the conversation, feeling safe because I'm not turning her world upside down with, hey, we should move. We can move to Nebraska and do X, Y, and Z and rent out this house. And she's like, ugh.
I, you know, that would be helpful, but I don't, I think Mattias might name all of his ideas as like an 85% idea. And then after two weeks, he'll be like, just kidding. I think it might be a 5% idea.
So we gotta give it a length of time. That's usually what I do. Like if he's still talking about it in three weeks, then it's likely that we could maybe have a joint conversation about it.
And then we'll see where it goes from there.
Yeah, you can monologue. If you monologue for more than three weeks, it turns into a conversation. Like, wait a minute.
Sounds like you actually mean this.
Yeah, yeah, because there have been times where he's had an idea and I'll jump on board too. But they tend to be, you know, like last year we went to see the eclipse and we went to North New York and it wasn't gonna pan out. It was gonna be cloudy.
And we both kind of looked at each other and like, you wanna drive six hours tonight with the kids and go see it in Canada? And we were both like, yeah, let's do it. And we did.
And we did.
Not moving to Nebraska, but you know.
That's tomorrow.
We were waiting when to break it to you, Erica. We're gonna start a business and everybody's moving to Nebraska.
My family would be excited. They live in Kansas.
Yeah, not too far from you, I guess. Yeah. Caleb, what golden nuggets do you have to share to our listeners today?
Especially for the agents, investigate this. I know you're getting creative offers. You're getting slammed with these things.
Here's a principle for you. It's cool to do a deal with $0 out of pocket. It is unethical, however, to do a deal with $0 in your pocket.
Evaluate your buyers with that in mind. So plenty of these creative finance investors all wanna put a notch in their belt for having done a deal with $0 out of pocket or close to it, which is cool, really cool. But they still need to have enough cash to handle an emergency.
Especially if I'm taking over your payments, I had better have some cash in the bank for when the water heater breaks or our tenant doesn't pay or something along those lines. So when you get a proof of funds, you need proof of funds not just for the closing costs. You need proof of funds that shows they have savings in the bank as well.
That makes a lot of sense, I agree. Yeah, I mean, it's not quite the same, but if you look at a syndication, the whole purpose of having accredited investors be the ones that can invest in syndications for the most part is so that they are sophisticated. They're not gonna lose their whole bag.
They're not gonna be bankrupt if this deal goes south. And I think that is maybe not to that extent. I don't think you need to be worth a million dollars or whatever, earn 300 plus jointly a year.
But I think it does make sense that you need to be advanced enough and sophisticated enough and able enough to weather the storms if they do come. And especially if you're taking over somebody else's payment, that can really damage somebody else's, yeah, credit, et cetera. Cool.
Caleb, what about a favorite book? Fundamental book you think everybody should read or one that you currently just really enjoy?
I know it's overdone. Yeah, and you already know what it is. Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
But if you, seriously, if anyone has not read or listened to that book yet, you're an idiot. Go listen to it. You've heard people tell you a dozen times or more to go read the book.
That is what converted me from a know nothing to a I gotta do something, right? That's what lit the fire under me. I was an accidental landlord, couldn't sell the house that I wanted to sell, so I refinanced it to move into the house that I'm in now, which is right next door to family.
So location, location, location. And then I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I was like, thank God I didn't sell that house. Now I have an asset.
Now I have something that's paying down. I'm building wealth rather than just dollars in the bank. And it is transformative if you haven't been through it.
Don't skip it any longer. Go get it now. Go listen to it.
Yeah. It's amazing. I think that book, I don't know if this is true, but I heard that book was written to sell the board game.
What was it? Escape the Rat Race or something. Or Cashflow Quadrant or something, I forget.
It's Cashflow.
Yeah, I heard that once, but that book has changed so many people's lives.
I don't think, I'm not sure that the board game came out before. I don't know for sure, but the book stands alone for me.
Yeah.
I don't care about the other books or anything there. I mean, there's good concepts, but you can pick the concepts up without reading the books. This book was transformative for me and probably millions of other people.
I don't know, hundreds of thousands at least.
I think, I mean, it's just, we're going through the, you know, the school system, which is all kind of geared towards one way of living and working. And it just really flips that on its head. So I think it's, if you don't have anybody in your family that is an entrepreneurial, that does invest in real estate, et cetera, like it just really can change your perspective on the world.
Well, I can say one thing for government school system. There are lots of businesses that need employees who don't think too hard. Produce workers for us, you know?
Yeah.
We homeschool.
Yeah. I mean, that's the whole industrial revolution. I mean, I think that's what was, a lot of people say the school system is, you know, to kind of gear up factory workers.
So yeah, it's good to have your kids be exposed to this type of stuff as well as you raise them. Caleb, what's your website? What are places that people could follow you?
I don't know if you do social media as well, if they're interested in learning more about your business and just following you along.
I'm pretty excited right now about my newsletter, my anti-guru newsletter. It's where I share my real financials on a monthly basis, wins or losses. I've been posting losses lately because we've got a startup title company.
And so the combined income between my rental portfolio, which is only four, right? But also my two businesses, the combined income is negative right now. That's life.
That's real life. Not just the toxic positivity that a lot of the gurus put out. So calebchristopher.io is where you can find Creative CC, Creative Title Company. I fix due on sale as well for these creative deals. We didn't even talk about that, but that's a pretty big thing. If you're an agent receiving these creative finance offers, you need to know about that and have some sort of comfort level with what happens if this happens.
How do we handle it? So calebchristopher.io has the connections to all of those things and that my boardroom newsletter.
Well, Caleb, thanks so much for being on the show.
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate the good questions. It's always fun.
And to those who didn't like the show.
He did a Friends gesture. If you're not familiar.
I don't mean it though. I think it's a more intense than I would ever say out loud anyways. But it's just.
Thanks Caleb.
Thanks for listening to the REI agent.
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All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is free. And this show is intended for entertainment purposes only.
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