Chasing and Achieving Big Dreams While Building Potent Ongoing Wealth with Austin Hair
Key Takeaways
- Understanding personal strengths and delegating effectively is key to scaling investments without burnout.
- Airbnb and creative housing strategies can create powerful income streams, even in challenging markets.
- Growth comes from starting small, partnering smartly, and leveraging bold thinking to expand.
United States Real Estate Investor
The REI Agent with Austin Hair
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A Wakeboarder’s Journey to Real Estate Freedom
On this episode of The REI Agent Podcast, Mattias welcomed Austin Hair, a professional wakeboarder turned thriving real estate investor, to share his journey of risk, resilience, and reinvention.
From competing on the Pro Tour to building a dynamic Airbnb portfolio, Austin’s story shows that chasing your passions does not mean sacrificing financial security.
It means learning to pivot, delegate, and embrace the unexpected opportunities that life delivers.
“Why grind away at something you hate just so one day you can enjoy life? Let's enjoy life as we go. Nothing is guaranteed.”
Finding Strengths and Delegating for Growth
Mattias opened the discussion with a powerful reminder about understanding your natural abilities in business and life.
Many new agents and investors try to handle every task, from marketing to maintenance, only to burn out.
The lesson is clear. Focus on your strengths, delegate what drains you, and build a system that allows for scalability.
“You do not need to be the one unclogging the toilets. Delegate those tasks so you can scale from two properties to twenty.”
By recognizing their strengths, investors can find partners to fill gaps, form unstoppable teams, and even explore passive roles like syndications to grow their wealth without endless stress.
Austin Hair’s Leap from Lakes to Listings
Austin’s early years as a wakeboarder were not just about sports but about resourcefulness.
While training and competing globally, he discovered real estate through reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad and decided to house hack his way into the market.
He purchased a lakefront home in Orlando for $185,000, filled it with fellow wakeboarders as roommates, and turned the property into both a home and an income stream.
His side ventures with Airbnb and fitness centers eventually pushed him into commercial real estate and large-scale development.
“It was not just wakeboarding income. House hacking, rentals, and Airbnb gave me the leverage to build a lifestyle and a portfolio.”
Surviving Florida’s Market and Insurance Storm
The conversation turned to Florida’s volatile market and the brutal reality of rising insurance premiums.
Austin explained how investors are facing $15,000 annual insurance bills with massive deductibles, even in relatively safe areas like Orlando.
Despite these challenges, Austin sees opportunity for investors who adapt their underwriting, charge appropriate rents, and remain flexible.
“There is always a deal if it pencils. You cannot sit on the sidelines just because the headlines scream bad news.”
From Ninja Gyms to Destination Airbnbs
Beyond real estate, Austin and his wife Lisa found a new passion: competing in American Ninja Warrior and training three days a week to stay sharp and playful.
That same spirit of innovation flows into their Airbnb business, where they are building massive, themed, destination properties complete with custom pools, lazy rivers, and spaces designed for unforgettable experiences.
These are not just rentals.
They are destinations that draw guests as much as any theme park or tourist attraction.
Wisdom for Aspiring Investors
For listeners hoping to follow a similar path, Austin offered straightforward advice. Start small, gain experience, and build confidence before scaling into commercial deals.
Explore roles as both general and limited partners. Use real estate as a powerful alternative to a 401k.
“Get started. Partner with others. Take baby steps, but never stop moving forward.”
He also highlighted two powerful reads: Who, Not How and 10X is Easier Than 2X by Benjamin Hardy, which stress the importance of delegation and bold thinking for true growth.
Living Bold, Building Smart
Austin’s story is a blueprint for living life fully while creating long-term wealth.
It is about resilience, creativity, and refusing to accept the notion that success and joy cannot coexist.
“Life is short. Find your strengths, delegate your weaknesses, and create a life you love while building wealth that lasts.”
For agents and investors alike, this episode is a reminder that financial success does not come at the cost of fulfillment.
It comes when you align your skills, embrace innovation, and refuse to settle for ordinary.
Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate.
For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com.
Related Articles
- Therapy You Didn’t Know You Needed (Holistic Wisdom for Real Estate Professionals)
- From For Sale Signs to Life Design (How The REI Agent Transforms Real Estate Into Holistic Wealth)
- Achieving Holistic Wealth and Success Through Real Estate (Insights from The REI Agent)
- Partnering with Investors (How Real Estate Agents Can Exponentially Maximize Profits)
United States Real Estate Investor
United States Real Estate Investor
Contact Austin Hair
United States Real Estate Investor
Mentioned References
- Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
- Who, Not How by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy
- 10X is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy
- Resi Club
United States Real Estate Investor
Transcript
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I'm Matias, an agent and investor.
And I'm Erica, a licensed therapist.
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing.
Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors.
Ready to level up?
Let's do it.
Welcome back to the REI Agent. I wanted to talk a little bit about strengths, strengths in investing, particularly. I think that the more, I mean, this is true in general, not just in investing.
I think no matter where you're at, no matter what you're doing, understanding who you are and your strengths and getting a really good grasp of those personality things, work traits. I mean, take them all, take all the different assessments because I think each one gives you kind of a different insight into the way you function. Because I think it's true for realtors where you get into the business and you feel like you have to do everything.
You have to wear all the hats. You have to be a marketer, an accountant, all these different things. And it's hard and it's a lot more than maybe you thought you were getting into.
You just wanted to do what HGTV shows and show the butterfly collector that can afford 1.2 million. And yeah, but it's when you actually get into the business, I mean, there's a lot of different aspects and it's pretty rare that you're gonna be good at all the different aspects of the job. And I think it's just important to know where your strengths lie.
And if you're an investor, I think it's important as well to really analyze yourself and figure out where are you best suited in the investing space. And I think in any career, again, like how are you gonna be the happiest? How are you gonna make this long-term a good thing for you?
And an example for me would be I'm a big picture thinker. I'm a big idea person. I get bogged down and I hate the routine, the mundane, the maintenance.
And so very early on from investing in long-term rentals and stuff, we have just, I've just kind of drawn a line in the sand and been like, you know what? I don't need to be the one unclogging the toilets, doing these things because that is gonna make me not love this business. It's gonna make me wanna get out of this business.
I can delegate. I can delegate those tasks. Yes, it's gonna make the numbers a little bit different, but I am not focused on what exactly I'm getting right now, cashflow-wise or whatever.
I'm looking at the bigger picture of every year, if I now own, because I'm able to do this delegation, I can go from having one or two properties to having 20 properties and be okay with it. And if each 20, if all those properties go up by $50 in rent the next year, that is obviously a much bigger increase than if I just had one or two. On top of that, they're all paying their mortgages down and hopefully they're appreciating as well.
And so there's just, those kind of things are just important to understand about yourself. What is it that you bring to the table and how are you gonna be the most successful in your field? And I think that when you're looking at getting into more complicated types of investing, there can be a lot of creativity, there can be a lot of strategy as to how to put a deal together, what makes the most sense for everybody.
And that's not everybody's strength. And if it's not, then don't spend tons of time trying to figure out, trying to learn all these different strategies so you can apply them, when maybe that's just not where your strengths are. And it could be that you are more of a repetitive task doer and maybe you're gonna be great at cold calling or doing something that kind of generates deals together.
And maybe you partner with somebody who's better at the strategy, for example. And then together, you guys are unstoppable because you're able to find a deal, another person's able to put a good deal together. And yeah, so I think it's just really important to think through and to understand yourself and to know how you are best suited to do this business.
And some people listening here may not wanna have any of the headaches that come along with owning property. And they might be best suited just to be a limited partner in a syndication deal. And that's a really amazing thing.
And I've talked to some people who are dedicated real estate investors who wanna build up their portfolio and let it appreciate and all that kind of stuff until the point where they are able to sell all their property and lose all the headaches and just invest those into syndications and be much more passive in their investing style. So there's a lot of different ways to do this. But I think understanding yourself and understanding what is gonna keep you going long-term and what's gonna make you the most successful over your life and happy.
Why grind away at something that you hate just so that one day you can enjoy life? Let's enjoy life as we go. Nothing's guaranteed.
Yeah, if unclogging toilets, cutting grass is gonna make you depressed, do it until you have to. If it doesn't pencil out quite right away, but you know it's a great long-term deal, do those things if you need to, but as soon as you can, get out of there because nothing's guaranteed. You gotta enjoy your life.
Some of these topics where I was reminded of and thought of because of our guests today, we have Austin Hair on the show. He has a very interesting story. He's done some really cool things.
So I'll let him talk about it. But he's done some creative, he was a go-getter in the real estate space from kind of day one and thinking through how to make situations work for him and be able to provide win-wins for friends, to house hack, that kind of stuff, and really turn that all into a portfolio. And it's a great story.
He's got some really cool experience. So definitely check it out while you're at it. If you enjoy this content, please give us that like or review us if you can.
That means a lot. And definitely subscribe to us so you get some other cool content like this one. So without further ado, here we have Austin Hair.
Welcome back to the REI Agent. We're here with Austin Hair. Austin, thanks so much for joining us today.
Hey, Mattias. Thanks for having us on the show.
Yeah, you have a interesting background.
You've done some cool things. Why don't we just start there and then dive into how you got into real estate.
Yeah, it starts, I guess, really with when I was 12 I started wakeboarding and trying to pursue that professionally. And I did that for like, I don't know, 10 to 12 years or something like that. Retired in 2017.
But that was kind of what got me onto real estate. And so I just feel like everybody's got their own different story of how they got to their specific career. But it was a lot of fun.
And the way that it kind of unfolded for me was we were doing, I was reading, I was in college. I had just started competing on the Pro Tour. I was 18 years old.
I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And it was talking about house hacking, which it wasn't called house hacking at the time. But it's like, buy your first deal.
And so essentially that's what I did by the time. I saved up some money until I was about 23. And then I got a house that was like a four bedrooms and a guest house.
This was in 2011. So it's like right at the bottom of the market. And I got some roommates that were the wakeboarders.
It was a lakefront house with a pool and a hot tub and overlooking the lake. And it was like $185,000 in the heart of Orlando, which is just really, really fortuitous timing on that side of things. Yeah, so I mean definitely got very lucky with the timing.
And so that was like how I started wakeboarding and how that led into real estate. And so then later on, I lived there for about four years and I was getting paid to live there. Like my mortgage was paid for and I was getting extra cash flow.
I had the master bedroom with a view of the pool and a private deck and all this kind of stuff. And so saved up some money and bought another property, kept that one as a long-term rental. And that one was a duplex.
So I had long-term tenants downstairs and I lived upstairs. And when I was going out of town, it's like, look, I might as well throw this thing up on Airbnb, like this new kind of platform. People are talking about it.
I don't know what it is. And it just booked out like every single weekend. And I was like, okay, that's pretty cool.
So eventually ended up kicking out the roommates downstairs, got married, my wife and I were living upstairs and we converted downstairs into like a nicer Airbnb and it did really, really well. And so that kind of like segwayed into doing more real estate. And then eventually I opened up some fitness centers and that's kind of how I segwayed into commercial real estate, is that the guy that helped me do my site selection invited me to come work with him on the site selection side and the development side for getting healthcare clients.
So that's kind of the thousand foot overview and happy to double click on any one of those issues.
That's an amazing story. First of all, that's so cool. The wakeboarding, man, like living on a lake with other wakeboarders, being a professional wakeboarder with a pool and a guest, man, that sounds amazing.
Yeah, it was cool. I mean, wakeboarding is, a lot of people ask me, oh, that's a sport? Like, it's not like the NBA or the NFL or anything like that.
You know, like a couple of guys make a really good living for their age and then like, you know, I had to really hustle. So like, yeah, I had sponsors and I made some money from contests and all that kind of stuff. But it was like the combination of like house hacking and then I would make some videos and you know, I was able to have a decent lifestyle because of all like the ancillary things that I did and the extra work that I put in.
So I mean, really, the only reason I was able to afford the down payment for the house wasn't because of wakeboarding necessarily as much as it was like, I was house hacking rental property. So I'd sign the master lease and I'd rent out each bedroom individually so I get free rent. So it was just a combination of like all those things.
But yeah, like at the end of the day, wakeboarding was very much like a lifestyle choice. You know, like choosing lifestyle over money. It was fun.
We got to travel all over the world, I think like 32 countries or something like that. And I did it until I was 29. Most people stop at like 22 or 23.
So yeah, it was cool. It was a platform for other things and it was a great learning experience.
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, you really, you really got into the all sorts of different things.
I mean, like so you had the master lease thing, that's pretty smart as well. And was that also kind of like your friends, like, you know, getting other ways?
Yeah, I sourced the house. Like I kind of take on the risk. I would sign the year long lease and then it was up to me to fill the rooms, right?
So like I would individually do the rooms at enough of a increase that I, you know, was essentially living for free or close to it. So I mean that, you know, that rubbed some people the wrong way.
Like there's- Excuse me, like how did you pitch that?
Yeah, I mean like if I could go back, I would be more upfront and honest about it. That was a mistake that I had made in the past for sure. And, but like, to be honest, like most people just didn't care, right?
Like for example, I mean, I, for a lot of rooms, for a lot of the houses, I was the one with the boat, right? Like I had the boat sponsorship and I was providing a lot more, you know what I'm saying? Like they could come, they could ride with me, that sort of, like, you know, they just rented a room.
They wanted to rent it for three months. Like really, it was a really fair deal for them, but I could have articulated better what I was doing, right? Because there was a, I would say I had like 30 roommates and there was a, you know, I got in like a little tiff with like two or three of them.
So for the most part it worked, it worked out fine. But I don't know if that answers your question.
No, that's interesting and it does. And I think to your point, like I think that is definitely, you could sell that. Like I got a boat.
Yeah, exactly. And then a short-term or midterm lease like that would definitely also be more expensive and you wouldn't be able to really find that as easily. And then from the lease structure, did you have to talk to the landlords and stuff about what you're planning on doing?
Yeah, everybody, it was always people I met through personal relationships, so it was no big deal. Like we were able to, they didn't really care what I did, right? Like they wanted, like I was signing a lease, they just wanted to make sure they got paid and that's what I did, I paid them.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean people are doing that kind of method as well, like Airbnb arbitrage for sure. And so, I mean that's a, you've definitely been creative and have been hustling to make that lifestyle less expensive and that's awesome.
Do you still own that one property?
Yeah, yeah, I have a hoarding problem. I don't like to sell things, I like to keep them. You know, I've always kind of been in it like for the long term, like historically, like okay, I'm much, I'm glad I held onto it when I bought my other property back in 2015, but I was so gung-ho and even in one of the, couple of the commercial real estate developments I've done with my partner, like we're so gung-ho about being buy-in holders.
I mean there was a good opportunity to sell in 2023, you know, 2022, 2023, that was kind of like the peak of the market. You know, in hindsight, I wish I'd been more flexible and like adaptive. Of course, like you never know what's gonna happen.
I think ultimately, as soon as rates drop, I think the prices are gonna start climbing again. Obviously, the past two years, rates, like real estate has pretty much plateaued, maybe even dropped a little bit in some markets. But I think it's directly related to interest rates.
So yeah, I held it, I like holding it, I like figuring out ways to hold it, like whether that's conserving your own capital or raising other capital or taking on more debt or you know what I'm saying, like whatever it is. In general, it's a lot better tax-wise when you can hold onto a property for a long time because now you're not paying these capital gains taxes, right? Like your equity is not really taxed.
Yeah, no, totally. You can refinance for free. I was, the other day I was, tax-free I mean, I should say.
The other day I was calculating kind of what, on an annual basis, I would estimate both my debt payoff and my appreciation are for my properties and it's a lot better when you have more. If you just have one, it's okay. But yeah, you get 10, 20 mortgages you're paying off every month and they're all appreciating or half historically and will continue to appreciate over time.
Maybe not last year, but I think long-term, of course, they're gonna appreciate more.
Yeah, Florida's definitely, the people I've talked to in Florida, it's definitely, they have a different vibe talking about the market than a lot of other places and we're still seeing some appreciation, but it has cooled off.
I mean, yeah, it's like, I think the Zillow report came out. No, I follow a publication called Resi Club and I think Orlando is down like 3.7% year over year. So I mean, it's not as good as 2020 and 2021 where it was up 10%, but 3% is not that big of a deal.
Imagine if your stock portfolio dropped 3% over the course of a year, you wouldn't care. You know what I'm saying? Or even over the course of a day or a week, it's so volatile.
So it's not really that big of a deal in my opinion, but certain areas like Punta Gorda I read about is down 10% or 15%. I mean, it's definitely segmented. The Northeast keeps climbing up because there's just so little inventory up there.
So yeah, it's very situational, but like, you know, what I tell people is there's always a deal, right? Like you shouldn't let the direction of the market make you just go totally sit on the sidelines because if a deal pencils, it pencils. Now I think you have to change your calculations.
You know, like we're acquiring a short-term rental portfolio with a 31% gross yield on cost. So every year the top line revenue is 31% of our purchase price. It's like, it doesn't, what is it?
You know, if we're not getting that at like, it's already such a great deal, right? Like we don't have to worry about the fact that the market's gonna drop another five or 10% before it eventually kicks back up because it's gonna pay for itself by then, right? Like that five or 10% that you lose in equity you would make in your cashflow that year.
Yeah, and then you've also got an asset that you can continue to optimize. So yeah, I think that there's always opportunities. Like we gotta be cognizant of what's going on, but it's like so many people are just scared and they sit on the sidelines and they never do anything because there's always bad news in the press, like always, always, always.
But if you can find a good deal, like I think another thing too is, you know, there was, we definitely had to change the way that we were underwriting deals in general. Like we, the way that we thought about them with 3% interest rates was different than how we thought about them with 7% interest rates. We have to essentially charge a lot more rent to the tenants that we're working with, and that sucks.
I mean, that's a cost that gets passed on to them and a lot of companies either couldn't afford it or chose not to afford it. But we were never underwriting deals that banked on having rates drop and being able to refinance. Because if we had done that in 2020, like if in 20, mid-22 is when I think rates like kind of peaked, like the end of 2022, and everybody was saying, oh, they'll be back down in six months, don't worry.
Like if we would have underwrote our deals for like a rate drop in six months, we would have been screwed.
Yeah, that's.
Yeah, that's a lot of things to think about.
And I mean, it's kind of like, you're also not supposed to count on an appreciation. So that's definitely another factor too there, like when you're underwriting to think through. And it's interesting, I think that there's maybe more of an opportunity in Florida for something like subject to a wraparound mortgages because people are gonna be a little bit tighter if they bought recently.
Or if you're really lucky, they're still tight and they have one of those 3% interest rates.
Yeah, and you know what sucks right now so bad is insurance. I mean, it's like, I'm just gonna vent for a second because it's so stupid. Our property insurance at one of our Airbnb properties was $2,800 without wind and hurricane.
You add wind and hurricane and it goes up to 15,000 with a $24,000 deductible in the case of a hurricane. So $13,000 a year plus a 22 or $24,000 deductible, that means if you're one, if you don't have $37,000 worth of damage from wind or from a hurricane, then you're already net negative. And every year, the amount of damage has to go up by $13,000 for it to make sense financially for you.
So after like three or four years, if you haven't got $50,000 worth of damage, you'd have paid out your insurance way more than you can expect to get. And what's so ridiculous is Orlando is not a prime danger zone for hurricanes. It's simply the fact that it's in Florida.
People vacate. Our properties get booked when hurricanes come through because they're fleeing the coast to come to Orlando. So anyways, like that's a tangent, but I know for a fact, that is definitely compounding the affordability issue right now.
Like carriers, I mean, like I think it's on the lenders. I think the lenders are forcing, by forcing wind and insurance, they are gonna force people to foreclose, you know, or sell their properties at a loss, which like, that doesn't really affect the lender, but that sucks for the people. So it's just, it's absolutely ridiculous.
And yeah, that part is a huge problem that I don't know how we're gonna face that without legislation.
Yeah, no, it really is. It's crazy. And you've had a rough go of it.
I mean, well, Florida in general here recently, but yeah, it shouldn't be blanketed to all of Florida for sure, if that's not really an issue for you. It's crazy.
Yeah, so I mean, look, yeah, you've gotta, I mean, it's taking me a lot of work to just get so many quotes and like increase my deductibles and do all these things just to make it work out. But you know, that's just another reason that you can start to see some compression in the market before in the pricing, you know, before you start to see an expansion. I mean, we're gonna have to, they're gonna have to figure out how to make insurance affordable and lower rates at the same time.
Now, I think those things are gonna happen eventually, but there's gonna be some, you know, it's gonna be pretty choppy until then.
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. And I think back to your point about like, you know, if the deal pencils not to be fearful to continue, you know, I make this point a lot, but you know, I had a colleague, a friend, somebody that I've partnered with on investments that, you know, through the pandemic had, you know, a bunch of doors and he was able to refinance those all and he was able to like, okay, I'm gonna set my, you know, target retirement date is how he approached it.
And so he, you know, he put them all like whatever, 15 years or whatever it was, but he was able to get, you know, all those mortgages at these cheap rates. And, you know, had he waited for that year when all the rates, when the rates were super low, there's no way he would have been able to buy that many properties, right? Like, so it's, it's, it makes sense and it's a long-term play.
If it pencils out now, I mean, sometimes you have to get a little more creative now, right? Like you said, like, I mean, you got to do some things a little bit differently like Airbnb is a one way you could do it or midterm rentals or, you know, go through that co-housing kind of idea.
Are you doing long-term rentals? Do you do all long-term?
Mostly we have a midterm.
Okay, how long have you owned your properties for?
The first one was in 2014. That was a primary residency that we kept as a, yeah. So, I mean, we've almost all of them were pre like 2021.
Okay.
So we're going to say like, I don't know how you're making, I don't know how you'd make a long-term rental pencil if you bought it after 2022. Yeah. Honestly, I don't know how people make short-term rentals pencil if they bought it after 2022 and they hire outside management at 20%.
Like it doesn't, I don't, there, you can't be making money.
So the past, so we, we, we bought a four plex with creative finance, well, with seller financing. So we have a unique deal there.
You got a good deal on it, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I mean the terms and it just, it, I won't get into the details of that one, but it, but it, the way we worked it out made sense and it was a win for everybody. But then on top of that, everything else has been almost all burrs. So like we've, we've been able to do a little bit better, like, you know, with, with our all-in costs and our mortgage is a little bit lower than, so that, that's helped.
Right now, the most recent one we did that way, we really loved it and didn't want to sell it. We could make a good profit on it if we sold it, but we, we love it and want to keep it. So we would turn it into a midterm rental.
We were, we would be like, I mean, we would be pretty much break even if you really factor in all the different, like, you know, CapEx costs and all that kind of stuff if we did long-term. So yeah, it wouldn't be actually cashflow technically.
So is it midterm? So you're doing 30 day to- Yeah, yeah. So our- Airbnb or Furnished Finder or like how do you market it?
All of them, yeah. Yeah, so, and that's so, it's, that's still a bit of, to be determined. We, we did get a tenant in there.
So, so like I would say, you know, on the high end, we could probably get about two grand a month for it on a long-term kind of situation. And so we were hoping to get about $3,500 a month for the midterm. We weren't sure what to do.
It wasn't booking right away. We weren't sure of the climate, how long does it take to actually book this place, et cetera. So we reduced it on a few different, on the platforms and ended up leasing it for three grand a month.
And they've, they'll be there for two and a half months, I believe, almost three.
Okay, what platform, was it Furnished Finder?
That one came through Furnished Finder, but we put them on Vrbo and Airbnb as well.
Okay.
Yeah, you can sync the calendars and all that good stuff.
On, so you're talking about subject too. I've been hearing like negative things about the legality of that recently. Like, I don't know how this is true, but what I heard a couple weeks ago was the mortgage companies are using AI to scrape more data and find out where the payments are coming from and it's triggering the due on sale clauses more frequently than it was in the past.
Have you heard anything about that?
It's just- I haven't, no. And I mean, I know from interviewing people, I've interviewed an attorney that does a ton of subject too. And they were saying, I mean, there's definitely a right and a wrong way of doing it.
And I think there's a couple things I've learned and again, I'm not a lawyer. So I've never done one. I've passed on a deal that made a lot of sense in the subject too realm because they were so close to what they owed and they had a good interest rate and they had to move and they didn't have money to move and all that.
It made sense for them. I passed that on to somebody else and they did it. But I haven't done one myself because it is a little bit gray in my mind and I'm a realtor.
So I'm not trying to get a bad reputation or anything like that either. But the way I'm- You haven't done subject too because you felt like it's a gray area? Yeah, I've never felt confident enough.
And now that I've talked to this attorney, they would be able to advise, even though they're not in my state, they'd be able to advise an attorney here locally and help orchestrate it the right way. I might feel more comfortable with it. But yeah, so basically my understanding is that you need to put the property into a trust where the seller and the purchaser would be in that trust.
And that is allowed in the St. Germain's whatever act that you can pass your property into a trust.
Yeah, they don't, Chase doesn't talk about that.
There's a lot of wrong information of how to do it, is my understanding. And if you don't- In that group specifically, or you don't wanna say names? I've heard a lot of people talk about it and not everybody mentions that.
And I think if you don't do that step, it seems like that there is a big hole, that it's obviously- I tried subject to, we're kind of looking at it for our personal residence, because we bought a house last year and we're looking for more rental properties. But our niche is like luxury, four to 12,000 square foot houses on acreage that we can host weddings and events and theme, and you know what I'm saying? And so it just wasn't likely we're gonna get a subject to deal from that.
So my kind of takeaway was like, subject to only really works with a distressed seller, and which maybe you can find in the luxury market, but it seemed less likely. And so what it came down to was your pipeline. And so it's like, okay, do I want to become a, it wasn't like it was just passive income.
Like, do I wanna become a subject to buyer? Do I wanna build out like a lead magnet process, like a lead generation process and a sales pipeline and like focus on this full time? Is that kind of how you understand it?
Yeah, I mean, I think it can be hard to find the, and then obviously you have to get good at explaining it and making it not sound like it's a scam. Because that was also something that happened, I think, in the last, you know, before the bubble, where people were basically doing this type of thing and then not like not paying the mortgage, just stop paying it.
Right, you have to, yeah, so that was the other thing too, is like you have to trust that person to pay the mortgage and it's gonna show up on your debt. Like if I'm, like if I was gonna do a subject too to somebody, I mean, I would have to get a lot more money than I would get regular to account for the risk of like them defaulting on the mortgage and it being in my name.
Like you really gotta- That's the second part that I think is important is you wanna make it a wraparound mortgage. And so what that means is that then you have a second deed of trust, like you'd have a deed of trust written between you and the seller that explains what happens if you default. I think in that circumstance, they'd just get the property back.
And- But if you're two months in, now you've missed the mortgage for two months, that's gonna show up on your credit for- Yeah, it also proves that you're not responsible for the mortgage payment. And I don't, I mean, that's the piece that I thought was missing before that somebody explained to me, that I was like, okay, that starts to make more sense, but still, I'd wanna see it written out. I'd have a lot of questions for an attorney if we were considering to do it.
And I think you're right. I think like there's no, I wouldn't do this if it weren't like the only option for me. Like if I had to sell, I had to move and I was underwater or whatever, and this is the only way to get the property moved, then maybe, but like it is a unique seller scenario.
And just the fact that Florida might have more sellers closer to that in that scenario, whatever the- Maybe now, yeah, maybe after.
Like that was the other thing too, in 2024, 2023, I mean, if you had a good interest rate, that means that you would have had your house before 2022. Like it could be anywhere between, you know, anywhere onward. And then that means you're also gonna have a ton of equity because we had a huge appreciation.
So it was like, it was really hard to find somebody who essentially, you'd have had to have just bought your house in a market where the equity didn't continue to appreciate really fast so that you owed pretty close to what you were trying to sell it for. You know, like pretty close to what it was worth. It was just like a long, anyways, I'm not trying to like just sit here and bash on- No, it's a bit of a long shot.
And then I think that the other point I've heard somebody make that is a negative towards subject two is that like most people are successful in real estate because they buy right. And if you're doing a subject two, you're not buying right. Like that's like kind of, you can't like get a, probably a cheap discounted deal.
And a subject two, right? So like, like if you're- Yeah, like in my case like- If you're underwater, if you're underwater, then you're not getting, you know, below market price.
Right, you're paying with it. Well, like in my case, like if I'm gonna subject to you the property, like I need to get extra, like I need to sell it for more than. Now I will say like, it is so stupid that like with the banking system, we have to sell a mortgage for 3% and the new person has to buy one for 7%.
Like there should be a way to transfer that debt. Like because the bank is okay, obviously, with that loan, you're holding it for, they've agreed to do it for 30 years. So look, again, that's a tangent, it's unrelated, but like that's frustrating, you know, that you can't transfer that over.
And then also the whole insurance thing going on is super frustrating too.
Yeah, you'd think that maybe if there's like a law and the caveat would be obviously the purchaser would have to be able to, you know, qualify for it, obviously, but I feel like, yeah, I feel like that could actually help a lot. I know the market, if that was a law. Interesting.
We're in the wrong space.
We need to go into legislation, fix all that. I don't wanna go into legislation. Well, okay, so we've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole and I wanna go down another one because you also are a American ninja warrior and I wanna hear about this.
Yeah, so in 2019, my wife, she has a condition called ankylosing spondylitis and it like is an autoimmune disease that makes her not be able to, like when it flares up, she can't walk and she can get stuck. And I mean, it really sucks. It's really, really painful.
She had kind of like a miraculous healing in 2019 and wanted to go on the show and like do ninja because she's really athletic. And I had just retired from wakeboarding in 2017 and I was like, no, I don't wanna do this. So around like early 2020, I think it was like December of 19, but I was like, okay, I'll try this.
And I just fell in love with it. She fell in love with it. And so for the last five years, we go to the gym like three times a week and I think it's important for people to just play.
I mean, I know this podcast is called A Holistic Approach to Life Through Real Estate and so kids is a great way to play, like having kids that forces you to play and be in the moment. And this is one of the ways that we force ourselves to just play and have fun. I could go work out in my garage or the YMCA or whatever and I feel great afterwards, but I'm not playing.
Rather, if I stagger that with going to the gym where I'm swinging from monkey bars and trapeze and pushing myself and trying new challenges and new obstacles, now I'm having fun. And the time flies by faster. So we just kind of figured, look, I could work out really hard for 30 minutes and not have fun or I could work out for like an hour at the ninja gym, hour and a half, couple times a week and have a lot more fun, right?
And that's kind of where we landed on. And then yeah, going on the show, takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of training, but it's like really fun and it's gratifying and it's cool to have all the people reach out with their support when they see you on there. So we just applied a couple weeks ago for this new season.
Lisa was on, she was just on, her episode aired probably like the beginning of July. And I wasn't on this last one and hopefully they'll call us. You just never know.
They say they get like 60,000 applicants and at least 600 get phone calls and only 200 get aired, right? So the fact that we were aired at all is like a really cool thing. But fingers crossed, they call us again this year.
You just, you never know. But we're gonna keep training either way.
That's awesome. So do you have to train differently as well to be able to do, I mean, I know it's gotta take a ton of endurance, stamina.
I mean, there's a whole, there's multiple organizations now that spawned because of the show. I mean, I'm reluctant to call them amateur because like the guys who do it are so good. Like in the elite level, I mean, it's like the competition is way more fierce than I ever had in wakeboarding.
But a lot of them don't get called because they don't have a good story. So when you train, you're really, you can train for those events and you can train for the show. And it's like a similar type training.
It's a combination of like learning new moves like to stay up to date with it because you don't know what's gonna, you're gonna be prepared for anything on the show. You don't know what the obstacles are gonna be ahead of time. But also having the endurance to get through it.
A big part of the show is like endurance. And so, yeah, just like running courses and making sure that you've got the good stamina and the grip strength and the cardio and all that kind of stuff. But like being strong and muscular doesn't really help you as much as like having good cardio and having good grip strength.
So the lighter you are, yep, just like rock climbing, the lighter you are, the better because you're holding on by your fingertips for a lot of that stuff. And it doesn't matter how big your pecs and quads are.
Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say and segue that, a comment into, yeah, we're big CrossFitters. And it's, I think it's similar in the sense that like, it's motivating and fun to kind of constantly have to learn new skills.
And like, there's a lot of different thing, areas where you have to get better at and like, Olympic lifting, gymnastics, all that stuff is hard. And there's, people dedicate their lives to like, doing Olympic lifting and that's just one of the elements. And so like, it's definitely rewarding.
It takes, you know, I've done group classes for other type of physical fitness stuff and I enjoy them, they're fun. But I think that skill thing is one of the reasons I got a lot more addicted to CrossFit than I have in anything else. So I can see that being a lot of fun with that element of, but I'm a heavy dude, so I don't think I'm meant for it.
Yeah, you, I mean, you can be like the biggest, you know, bodybuilder with super, super strong lifts and just totally be humbled when you go to the gym. Like, the 17 year old kids who weigh 170 pounds are the best.
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. That's funny. Well, we can get back to real estate.
Tell me more about like, what you're doing now and the development stuff that you started talking about at the beginning.
Yeah, yeah, so we started focusing on development for specifically for healthcare practices. And so, like, we would look for multi-site dental, derm, behavioral health, vet, et cetera. Urgent care type things.
And also, I've been doing the Airbnb in the background, too. So like, I would say I was like 90, 10 focused on development, 10% on Airbnb, and now it's kind of flip-flopped. Now I'm like 90% focused on the Airbnb.
And so, they're just different, right? Like, for me, when you do a development and you're holding it, you're, I don't know if your audience is, are they familiar with cap rates?
Yeah, I mean, somewhat.
So like, let's just say, you know, it's worth an eight cap when you're done. You know, you're gonna wanna develop at a 10 cap, so there's like a 2% spread there. But with the cost of everything right now, it's really hard to get that development constant.
So there goes your margin, because labor's up, capital is up, interest rates are up, you know what I mean, all that kind of stuff. And so, like, you're building long-term wealth when you're holding these things for a long time, but the cash flow is very nominal as the GP day one. So, you know, like you're building a lot of equity, and that's great, and I think that's important to do that, but with the Airbnb, it's kind of like the opposite.
Like, there's not really a ton of equity buildup, because it really only can sell for what your neighbors go for. And that's not gonna be, cap rate is, it means like however much money you make, like you can sell the building for a factor of that. Airbnb, it doesn't matter right now, because you can only get lending on what the banks think it'll sell for, like if your business stops working, like they're not really banking on Airbnb.
Now, there is something that just changed in February, which is really interesting, which is the fact that the SBA is now willing to lend, like we almost have an SBA deal on this portfolio. They'll lend 90% of the value, and they'll value it based on the cash flow, based on the revenue, with residential. So historically, it was only commercial, and they just started doing assisted living, and now the assisted living was residential that helped them to segue into short term rentals.
So with the SBA, they want to support people who are getting jobs, and so it's like, they're not gonna give you money to go do like a long term rental portfolio, because you're not creating any jobs, right? But I think they're realizing that Airbnb is a very hospitality intensive business that does create jobs. So that could actually be a game changer in unlocking the equity that you have, that like, you know, from the revenue that you're generating.
So yeah, our focus has been doing these like destination kind of property, like the properties we're acquiring, they are, they're all on like five to 10 acres, and they have custom built pools that have like lazy rivers and commercial water slides that are shaped like ice cream cones and billiards tables and stuff like that. And then there's 15 bedrooms and 650 people, and each room is themed after like, you know, Monopoly or Scrabble or like Jumanji Theater. And like, just, you can, it's 40 minutes from Disney, but you never have to, you'll never have to go to the parks, right?
And we have one in Cleveland, Ohio, but the idea is to just make this like destination type thing that draws- You go there for the house. You go there for the house, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, of course, like there are, other people are coming in for like, to be there anyways for sometimes, but sometimes people will just go and book the property just to go have a vacation.
Like, that is the destination. So I would say it's a little bit of both. But that's kind of like the niche, and that's been, I think that's where the future's going, and it's been exciting.
That is really cool. I was gonna ask if you're doing primarily around Orlando, or if you're going just to anywhere where the property and the demand is there. That's cool.
It's interesting, like, Orlando has, obviously, a lot of demand, but it's got a lot of supply. There's a lot of competition in Orlando. So Cleveland, the property is performing really well over the summer.
Like, much better this year than last year, I mean, because we've done a lot of improvements to it. But it kind of has me wondering, I mean, like, look, there's pros and cons of both aspects. Being in a market which has a lot of competition means you have more data.
You know, you have more data points. You can accurately adjust your revenue, figure out what amenities are working, and, you know, and that sort of thing. But, of course, if you're in a blue ocean, then it's like you're taking a gamble, because you can't have data to back up your thinking or decision making, but there's nobody really offering what we're offering in that area.
So I kind of like am thinking that having these tertiary, you know, secondary tertiary markets, where you kind of create the same product. Like, this product was driven out of competition, because of the need for innovation, right? Like, Orlando, Claremont are very saturated areas.
You really have to have a top-notch, world-class product to stand out and get booked. And so that is not necessarily the case in these secondary markets, right? So if we take that same innovation and drive an ethic, work ethic, then I think you could do really well.
Yeah, well, you know, I think, I'm curious what's gonna happen in the Airbnb market as well, from more people coming in to buy them, since we have that 100% depreciation back. You know, I had a buyer looking primarily for an Airbnb, just because of that reason. And I wonder if they, how much they actually cared about, I mean, I know they wanna cover the mortgage.
I know they wanna make a little bit of money and make it worthwhile cashflow-wise, but I wonder if the depreciation is a big enough push for them, since, you know, it can, there's that whole loophole with the Airbnbs or short-term rentals that allows, you know, non-real estate professionals to take advantage of that full depreciation. Whereas if they bought the, you know, just any other kind of product, they wouldn't be able to take out. They would only be able to write off their, their passive income instead of their earned income, I think is different.
What do you mean any other products, like a long-term rental or what exactly?
Yeah, I think it's basically, if you put in enough hours and I don't, I'm not, again, not an accountant or an attorney, so do your own research, but it's something about if you put enough hours in the Airbnb and the short-term rental space and something that you owned, you kind of get that rep status, that real estate professional status. And then that allows you to take deductions off of your earned income, not just your passive income. So if somebody else was, you know, just doing a long-term rental, they weren't a real estate professional, they could depreciate, you know, either way they could do the, you know, like the accelerated appreciation, or they could just do the normal 27 years one.
But that would only, I think, take off their passive income, let's say the rent they earned on that property or any other property, and not affect their taxable income, is the way, or sorry, their earned income, their active income, is the way I understand it. So like, I think there was a big push for doctors to buy into Airbnbs. And similarly, I think, you know, doctors often had like real, you know, real estate professional spouses.
Like, so like the doctor's wife being a realtor was kind of always that like, kind of like joke, or people, you know, a thing to happen. But, and part of the reason was for those tax benefits. And so Airbnbs is a way to get through that without having to, you know, be an active landlord or primarily just a landlord or a realtor.
But. Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean like, it'd be, I guess the way, the benefit is like you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, really, because you're not to pay taxes. But at some point, you know, you're gonna, if you take the full depreciation and you sell the property, like you're gonna have to pay the taxes or figure that out at that point.
So yeah, it's kind of like, it's surprising to me that that in and of it's like, to me, that's just an added benefit that can maybe make a deal penciled out you're on the fence about. But to go into it, I mean, look, I guess that'd be good for, you know, prices, like helping prices stabilize again.
It might. Yeah, it's hard to know, because it's interesting in my area, there was like a huge influx of people buying Airbnbs to the pandemic. And I think like there was a risk of that being a bit of a bubble in our market, that if a lot of people fail, they're using past numbers, you know, before it blew up, they were using the numbers that people were booking with, and then everybody's gonna have less demand.
And now people are not traveling to this destination quite as much because they're also flying to Spain or Italy or whatever, right? And so maybe, you know, that increase of demand for this reason might help offset if there are some people that are struggling and needing to sell, I don't know. But yeah, I'll have to say it's like, you know, it can be pretty significant if you accelerate the depreciation.
I mean, it can be like, you know, you can get like $100,000 off your taxable income, for example, and, you know, what can you do with $100,000 in the meantime to help make it worthwhile when you do have to pay the taxes if you don't just keep rolling them into other property?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, look, I think it's great to, you know, take advantage of it. And like, yeah, anytime that you can defer your taxes is great because, like you said, you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, right?
Like if I gotta pay the government a million dollars, or whatever, like real estate, a lot of people listening, I don't know what your taxes are every year, but say it's $50,000. Like if I'm gonna owe that money either now, or I can defer it for 10 years, well, obviously I wanna defer it 10 years because if I'm paying the exact same amount, like I might as well hold on to it and make that money work for me, you know. Conservative 7% a year, it'll double by the time you sell it, and everybody's making more than 7% these days, you know?
Yeah, yeah, so that's the idea. But it's just an interesting thing that I kinda wanna watch as this new kind of market. But that's really cool.
Are you looking to acquire more? Like do you have certain set goals now of acquiring new properties, or are you just kind of, if they come up and they make sense, then you'll go after them?
Yeah, you know, I'm trying to live in the gain and not the gap, like appreciate what you have instead of always searching for more. This is gonna be a really big acquisition for us. It's gonna triple our revenue pretty much.
And so I'm trying not to get too high in the sky, head in the clouds. I really wanna hammer this out, hire the right people in the right seats, learn the processes, make sure that it's successful. But I can't imagine a scenario where other opportunities don't come up or fall in my lap or whatever, right?
Like it's a well-known brand, and I think it's gonna help put us on the map a little bit. So yeah, I think, and you know, it comes down to operational efficiencies and just being an entrepreneur, being in any, running any company, like you have to be willing to put in the effort to figure out what it's gonna make to work. I mean, this idea that you can buy an Airbnb as passive income is so far gone.
I don't think anybody really thinks that anymore, but a lot of people got into it in 2020 through 2022 with that mindset and like, oh man, all of my, wait a minute, I gotta hire somebody to clean up the scuffed baseboards, and like, oh, our AC went out, and oh, we gotta buy a new laundry machine, and like, everybody's adding decor and murals, and like, now I gotta buy a pool heater. You know what I'm saying? Like there's just a bunch of things that people didn't anticipate, and I think they're getting out of the game, which has been helpful.
Like you know, we've kind of, we saw, we saw demand kind of dropping for a while, and then it's like kind of plateaued. So I think we're kind of at the bottom, but hopefully as people have gotten out, those of us who stuck to it and like continue to sharpen our ax and make a better and better product, you know, my goal, my hope is that we'll be rewarded on the other side as everything starts to come back up.
Yeah, and I think, I think to your point, I think it's a, it's definitely an art form. It's definitely something that you have to do well, and it's not just easy, easy money, which I think is what was sold.
No, it's a hospitality business, you know? It's like, do you think running the Marriott is easy?
Right, yeah, no, 100%, I love it. I'm curious if you have any golden nuggets you'd want to sHair to listeners that, you know, maybe wanting to get into some of the spaces you've been involved in or just kind of general mindset stuff.
You know, I think that you gotta kind of do baby steps, I guess is the best way to put it. Like, I've been involved both in being the GP and the LP of other deals, meaning I'm the guy running the show and also the guy investing, one of the investors. So, like, my path, this is just what worked for me, but like, I bought a residential property first, right?
It was single family, it was, you know, smaller purchase price, and did a lot of the work myself. Then I kind of learned real estate a little bit, and then I, well, you know, I bought two, I ended up buying two residentials before going commercial. When I went commercial for the first time, I was an LP, so I got invested in a deal, kind of like to see a little bit how it works on the outside, and then eventually, I started working with other people to become a GP in deals and making them happen on the inside.
And so, you know, you gotta pick your poison, really. Like, do you wanna be a full-time real estate investor or do you wanna continue with your day job? Like, if this audience is mostly, sounds like, real estate agents, they're probably gonna come across deals, you know?
And so I think, like, it's best to just get started in them and when you find a good deal, and you're gonna have to either learn, like, invest your own money, learn how to raise money, or you can invest in somebody else's deal. A lot of times, it's good just to start out investing in other people's deals, too, while you find the ropes a little bit. So, that's what I got.
Yeah, 100%, I mean, it's an awesome 401k replacement for realtors, because they, you know, we don't really have those kind of things, and it's easier to understand, too. Typically, I mean, if you're buying, you know, real estate in your market, you know, you're gonna understand, you're gonna have a better pulse of it, you're gonna understand that better than, you know, the 500 best performing stocks, if you invest in the S&P 500, right? I mean, you're gonna have a way better pulse on that one asset, so, yeah.
So, I think it's definitely great advice, for sure. And you get to take advantage of that depreciation, as well, in those deals. What about a favorite book, fundamental book, that you think everybody should read, or one that you currently really are enjoying?
Yeah, I mean, I dropped Rich Dad, Poor Dad earlier. That was a pivotal book for me. Recently, I've been enjoying Benjamin Hardy's books.
He has 10X Easier Than 2X, and Who, Not How. So, I think Who, Not How is a good one to start with. It's about, like, how to delegate.
And look, delegation is, like, a very, very, very underrated skill. I mean, I have poorly delegated so many things, so many times, like, I'm still learning how to do that. But you gotta start somewhere, especially any sort of, like, entrepreneurial role, where you're, kind of, in charge of eat what you kill.
Like, the more tasks that you can take off your plate to focus on the things that are really important, the better. So, Who, Not How is a great one, and then 10X is Easier Than 2X. There's just, like, a mindset shift, you know, focusing.
You don't have to take it literally, if you don't want to. Some people do, some people don't. But, like, the idea being, you know, you can't do everything yourself, and by having large, lofty goals, it actually simplifies your processes.
Because you can have 1,000 or 100 different ways to 2X your business, right? If you're gonna 10X, that eliminates 98% of those. You might be left with one or two ways, you know, one or two paths forward.
So, the idea's about simplifying. And, yeah, it's just, like, a really good, you know, thought-provoking read that, you know, I'm not sure that I'm ready to 10X, personally. Maybe that's a letting belief I should examine.
But I'm definitely, you know, we're growing, right? We're growing a lot. So.
Well, I mean, you probably have 10X from when you started.
Yeah, that's actually, that's a good point. We just did, because of that book, I joined Dan Sullivan's strategic coach program. And the last exercise we did at our meetup was, hey, what date were you 110th revenue of VR now?
I was like, okay, interesting, I have 10X already. And everybody could do that exercise. So, it's like, if I 10X before, I could definitely do it again.
So, I don't know, I'm kind of feeling a little bit conflicted about what to do with that situation.
Well, we're gonna have to follow up and have another podcast, you on another podcast in a year or so and see where you're at. So, we do 5X by then at least. Yeah, that would be awesome.
But anyway, Austin, it was a lot of fun to have you on. What a variety of things we talked about, but it was enjoyable the whole time. So, thank you so much.
Thanks, my pleasure.
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